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 Post subject: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 164
Finally decided to give myself a (OK, another) retirement gift and bought a CAI "Draco" 7.62X39 pistol. It's essentially a pistol version of the AK-47. It's sold as a pistol, and apparently is a pistol per federal law. So what are the odds a local cop or even a OSHP who pulls me over is going to know this scary looking gun with a loaded 30 round mag is a pistol ?

Anyone else carry a loaded exotic pistol in their car, something that might excite the LE folks if they see it? More importantly, anyone ever been pulled over while toting one of them (loaded) in your car?
Is it worth contacting the AFT to get something in writing from them declaring the Draco really is a pistol?


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Just because it's classified as a pistol by the ATF doesn't mean that's also true under Ohio law.

ORC 2923.11 defines a "handgun" as "Any firearm that has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand".

Your "CCW" is a "CHL" and it only applies to handguns. I recommend you make sure that what you're using is actually (or at least likely to be) considered a "handgun" under Ohio law.


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:50 pm 
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I was under the impression that a license to carry a handgun applied to anything the ATF considers a handgun. Could be wrong, I don't know anyone that carries anything other than a plain old regular pistol.

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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:07 pm
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Location: SW Ohio
I have just enough trigger time with guns like that to opine that they are range toys, not a viable carry choice.

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"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 164
Of course it's a range toy, I'm not talking about carrying the damn thing in a big-ass holster under a duster or anything that goofy. On the other hand, if I'm going to the range or my buddy's farm to shoot, as I understand the law, I may have the gun loaded in the car, as well as additional loaded mags BECAUSE it is a handgun. Conversely, I may not have a loaded AK-47 in the car, nor may I have additional loaded mags BECAUSE it is a rifle.

The bit in the ORC about a handgun being one that is designed to held and fired with "a single hand" is a joke. How many shooters today fire a sidearm with one hand? How many would even consider firing something like .44 magnum one handed.


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Location: East of Cincinnati
Calhoun wrote:
How many would even consider firing something like .44 magnum one handed.

I prefer to shoot large-bore revolvers exactly that way, especially single-action variants.

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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:42 pm
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Your're a better man than I.


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:07 pm
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Location: SW Ohio
To answer your original question Calhoun, I believe that it's certainly possible you could run into a law enforcement officer who would never take your word for thar Draco being legally considered a handgun. After all we see reports on OFCC that there are still some police who don't understand portions of the concealed carry laws, even parts of it that have been in place since the beginning in 2004.

_________________
"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:01 pm 
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Calhoun wrote:
Your're a better man than I.

Not at all - I just have big hands, and I prefer not to get burnt or cut when my off hand winds up where it doesn't belong. :)

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James Beatty


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 8:24 pm
Posts: 608
Here's the deal, unless you want to mention or be bitchin' about getting attention, be discreet and keep it concealed.


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:42 pm
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Old Cold Warrior wrote:
Here's the deal, unless you want to mention or be bitchin' about getting attention, be discreet and keep it concealed.


Really?? I thought I was required by law to tell an officer who might stop me I have a gun in the automobile. Sorry, but I think I'll get more unwelcome attention by not telling him and having him find it.

Also, don't give up the day job to become a poet. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:44 am 
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Calhoun:

Major cop-out, but unless you've got a couple of good lawyers on speed-dial, I'd consider that thing a rifle for transport purposes.

That you're correct may be settled in court some weeks later, and you may not want the gun when it eventually comes back, if ever....

(You really should never carry a gun that you'd suffer serious grief over it's loss. A couple hundred bucks worth of smithing and parts on an $800 gun is likely to get back to you in better shape and a more timely manner than something off-the-wall, but at some point, who knows? I take an M&P40C for "airline" travel. I wouldn't be happy to lose it, and won't likely get reimbursed for the Apex DCAEK kit in it, but I'd likely sleep OK. Grandpa's 1911 from Iwo Jima, OTOH, would be a loss....)

OK, grandpa was never in the US military, and probably didn't know where Iwo Jima is, but you get the idea.

And, yes, if stopped, if that thing's loaded, you're "carrying", and need to notify. If it's unloaded (and that includes the magazines), you don't have to mention it. It's not impossible that the Officer might see it, but then were into the "don't let 'em search" mess.

Nobody's ever mentioned what happens if you've got a 1911 on your belt, loaded, and two more, unloaded, in the range bag. Without a CHL, of course, no notification is necessary, and they all have to be unloaded, including the magazines, but with a CHL, are the ones in the bag subject to notification even though you've got one on your belt, and the others are secured in the trunk?

Same magazines.... Technically, they're all loaded, by the current law, but the others aren't easily accessible....

Bet the legislators missed that one, too....

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 164
I called the retired OSHP how taught my CCW class and asked his opinion. He said without question, if the ATF classifies the gun as a pistol, it's legal to carry it in the car loaded with loaded mags. He then pointed out the difference between "legal" and pushing one's luck. He said unless the officer was a gun guy, I'd probably be in for a hard time with a loaded military-looking weapon, especially if it was in easy reach as I drove. He agreed with Stu, unless there was a very compelling reason to do otherwise, consider it a rifle for transport purposes.


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:56 am 
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Location: Halfway between Cleveland & Akron
SMMAssociates wrote:
Nobody's ever mentioned what happens if you've got a 1911 on your belt, loaded, and two more, unloaded, in the range bag. Without a CHL, of course, no notification is necessary, and they all have to be unloaded, including the magazines, but with a CHL, are the ones in the bag subject to notification even though you've got one on your belt, and the others are secured in the trunk?

Without a CHL, aren't you back to the "package, box or case", separate compartment where you have to leave the vehicle or in plain sight in a rack or holder thing? Without a CHL the one on the belt is a no-no...

IMHO - and IANAL - with a CHL, all loaded weapons in the vehicle should probably be declared. We're no longer constrained by how handguns are carried in the vehicle nor was a limit set on how many could be "carried", thus my logic for making them all subject to notification - even though I object to notification in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: CCW and Exotic Pistols
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 8:24 pm
Posts: 608
Old Cold Warrior wrote:
Here's the deal, unless you want to mention or be bitchin' about getting attention, be discreet and keep it concealed.


Okay...real slowwwww and clearrrrrrr here: Of course, notify said cop if stopped; but don't get attention or make it worse by "displaying" or "playing" or "showing off" or "flashing" it first. Some people besides me have done it, you see. It's a bad deal when sensitive squeamish Oprah watchers squeal. :roll:


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