Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 
Author
Message
Post subject: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic stop.
Post Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:15 pm
While the driver in a car I was riding in was getting a ticket, I was informed that the Trooper wanted to keep through the stop, and they would have their serial numbers run. We were told that it was to insure they had not been used in a crime. I am willing to take this matter up, is there a 2A lawyer who wants to fight this knowing there's no money in it for either of us?
Top
Offline
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:15 pm
Posts: 3
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:16 am
if this was an illegal activity on the part of the leo, then what laws, and or rights specifically are we as victims to recite at the time of the criminal activity being committed by the leo?

The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress:FrederickDouglass

learning is good .understanding is better .pleas teach with wisdom
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 7:49 pm
Posts: 282
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:51 pm
Quote:
2923.12(G) If a law enforcement officer stops a person to question the person regarding a possible violation of this section, for a traffic stop, or for any other law enforcement purpose, if the person surrenders a firearm to the officer, either voluntarily or pursuant to a request or demand of the officer, and if the officer does not charge the person with a violation of this section or arrest the person for any offense, the person is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm, and the firearm is not contraband, the officer shall return the firearm to the person at the termination of the stop. If a court orders a law enforcement officer to return a firearm to a person pursuant to the requirement set forth in this division, division (B) of section 2923.163 of the Revised Code applies.


5th. Black's Law Dictionary - Contraband. In general, any property which is unlawful
to produce or possess.

I would say the officer can run the number.
Top
Offline
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 2720
Location: Too close to Cincinnati
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:16 am
Preechrj:

Welcome Aboard!

I don't know how you got past me....

I'm an unofficial greeter.

I really don't have a solid answer to your question, but if you properly informed the Officer, then he probably can ask for your weapon, and 2923.12(G) probably does give the Officer the right to ask for your weapon(s) and "run" them.

Unless you bought the thing at 0500 behind a bar, you're covered, although you may have to get a lawyer involved. Seems like some areas are still kind of stupid after all of this time.

Meantime, there's a sticky at http://forums.buckeyefirearms.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10097. Nothing required, and while it still may be hazardous to your health, the first few pages may tell you more about how this site works....

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

יזכר לא עד פעם
Top
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:01 pm
Posts: 6726
Location: Youngstown OH
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 8:01 am
Thanks for the welcome! I understand that the Trooper has the right to secure my firearms, understand but disagree. I cannot see how, since it is not specified in the law, how this opens me up to a fishing expedition where my guns are concerned. Yes my guns are legally obtained, and I do my level best to comply with the law, but isn't this a step too far? I was not asked if this was ok, I was informed that it was going to happen. Had I been asked or any time been given I would have said get a warrant! Would it be probable cause to give a sobriety test to anyone carrying alchohol? Cell phones are often stolen, some are unlocked to use in an illegal manner. This seems to be a direct affront to the 4th amendment, and possibly the 5th. I realize there's no money in it, and that I received my guns and ammo at the end of the stop (an othewise pleasant for the circumstances stop) but this is still wrong.
Top
Offline
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:15 pm
Posts: 3
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:08 pm
Preechrj wrote:
Thanks for the welcome! I understand that the Trooper has the right to secure my firearms, understand but disagree. I cannot see how, since it is not specified in the law, how this opens me up to a fishing expedition where my guns are concerned. Yes my guns are legally obtained, and I do my level best to comply with the law, but isn't this a step too far? I was not asked if this was ok, I was informed that it was going to happen. Had I been asked or any time been given I would have said get a warrant! Would it be probable cause to give a sobriety test to anyone carrying alchohol? Cell phones are often stolen, some are unlocked to use in an illegal manner. This seems to be a direct affront to the 4th amendment, and possibly the 5th. I realize there's no money in it, and that I received my guns and ammo at the end of the stop (an othewise pleasant for the circumstances stop) but this is still wrong.
Apples and oranges. I pointed to the law that allows the running of the numbers. You forfeited that right by asking for the privileged to carry a loaded gun in a car. If you had put your unloaded gun in the trunk then no notification would have been required. I'm just say'n.....
Top
Offline
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 2720
Location: Too close to Cincinnati
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:02 am
color of law wrote:
Quote:
2923.12(G) If a law enforcement officer stops a person to question the person regarding a possible violation of this section, for a traffic stop, or for any other law enforcement purpose, if the person surrenders a firearm to the officer, either voluntarily or pursuant to a request or demand of the officer, and if the officer does not charge the person with a violation of this section or arrest the person for any offense, the person is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm, and the firearm is not contraband, the officer shall return the firearm to the person at the termination of the stop. If a court orders a law enforcement officer to return a firearm to a person pursuant to the requirement set forth in this division, division (B) of section 2923.163 of the Revised Code applies.


5th. Black's Law Dictionary - Contraband. In general, any property which is unlawful
to produce or possess.

I would say the officer can run the number.


One issue I can see is that them sending the Dispatcher the serial number, make, and model is an "open record" under Ohio law...whether it be done by radio or using any other communication method.

Ohio revised code requires us to transfer possession of said firearm to them during a stop.....but if they wanted to examine that firearm at some other time and run the serial number, make, and model they would need a search warrant to demand that you hand it to them ??

So why have we been forced to give up our rights against unlawful search and seizure just because the machine is a firearm ??

And more importantly I think is whether it is important to REFUSE to con sent to them running the numbers, and to make it clear that you have been compelled by law to even allow custody of the firearm to transfer to them...and that you are not WILLINGLY doing so ??

I could spin a million hypothetical scenarios about guns being reported lost and stolen and the incorrect serials being provided to BATFE and or state and local LE. All kinds of charges hung on the poor guy who had the gun during a traffic stop could hit the trash can pronto if a Judge agreed that the stop itself was improper.

We can sort out getting the gun back later but the defendant walks on any charges they hang on him IF he/she has not willingly consented to a search ??


Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:23 pm
Posts: 3182
Location: Exit 13 on the Ohio pike
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:59 am
willbird wrote:
color of law wrote:
Quote:
2923.12(G) If a law enforcement officer stops a person to question the person regarding a possible violation of this section, for a traffic stop, or for any other law enforcement purpose, if the person surrenders a firearm to the officer, either voluntarily or pursuant to a request or demand of the officer, and if the officer does not charge the person with a violation of this section or arrest the person for any offense, the person is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm, and the firearm is not contraband, the officer shall return the firearm to the person at the termination of the stop. If a court orders a law enforcement officer to return a firearm to a person pursuant to the requirement set forth in this division, division (B) of section 2923.163 of the Revised Code applies.


5th. Black's Law Dictionary - Contraband. In general, any property which is unlawful
to produce or possess.

I would say the officer can run the number.


One issue I can see is that them sending the Dispatcher the serial number, make, and model is an "open record" under Ohio law...whether it be done by radio or using any other communication method.

Ohio revised code requires us to transfer possession of said firearm to them during a stop.....but if they wanted to examine that firearm at some other time and run the serial number, make, and model they would need a search warrant to demand that you hand it to them ??

So why have we been forced to give up our rights against unlawful search and seizure just because the machine is a firearm ??

And more importantly I think is whether it is important to REFUSE to con sent to them running the numbers, and to make it clear that you have been compelled by law to even allow custody of the firearm to transfer to them...and that you are not WILLINGLY doing so ??

I could spin a million hypothetical scenarios about guns being reported lost and stolen and the incorrect serials being provided to BATFE and or state and local LE. All kinds of charges hung on the poor guy who had the gun during a traffic stop could hit the trash can pronto if a Judge agreed that the stop itself was improper.

We can sort out getting the gun back later but the defendant walks on any charges they hang on him IF he/she has not willingly consented to a search ??


Bill


There's a lot in Ohio law that doesn't make sense. Don't I have the right to remain silent? Simply driving a vehicle I never once have to legally answer any police officer's questions. I simply have to hand over my driver's license and comply with what he says. However, having a CHL you physically have to open your mouth and say you have a firearm on you if you do. Doesn't that violate the 5th Amendment?
Top
Offline
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:17 am
Posts: 528
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:34 am
JediSkipdogg wrote:
willbird wrote:
color of law wrote:
Quote:
2923.12(G) If a law enforcement officer stops a person to question the person regarding a possible violation of this section, for a traffic stop, or for any other law enforcement purpose, if the person surrenders a firearm to the officer, either voluntarily or pursuant to a request or demand of the officer, and if the officer does not charge the person with a violation of this section or arrest the person for any offense, the person is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm, and the firearm is not contraband, the officer shall return the firearm to the person at the termination of the stop. If a court orders a law enforcement officer to return a firearm to a person pursuant to the requirement set forth in this division, division (B) of section 2923.163 of the Revised Code applies.


5th. Black's Law Dictionary - Contraband. In general, any property which is unlawful
to produce or possess.

I would say the officer can run the number.


One issue I can see is that them sending the Dispatcher the serial number, make, and model is an "open record" under Ohio law...whether it be done by radio or using any other communication method.

Ohio revised code requires us to transfer possession of said firearm to them during a stop.....but if they wanted to examine that firearm at some other time and run the serial number, make, and model they would need a search warrant to demand that you hand it to them ??

So why have we been forced to give up our rights against unlawful search and seizure just because the machine is a firearm ??

And more importantly I think is whether it is important to REFUSE to con sent to them running the numbers, and to make it clear that you have been compelled by law to even allow custody of the firearm to transfer to them...and that you are not WILLINGLY doing so ??

I could spin a million hypothetical scenarios about guns being reported lost and stolen and the incorrect serials being provided to BATFE and or state and local LE. All kinds of charges hung on the poor guy who had the gun during a traffic stop could hit the trash can pronto if a Judge agreed that the stop itself was improper.

We can sort out getting the gun back later but the defendant walks on any charges they hang on him IF he/she has not willingly consented to a search ??


Bill


There's a lot in Ohio law that doesn't make sense. Don't I have the right to remain silent? Simply driving a vehicle I never once have to legally answer any police officer's questions. I simply have to hand over my driver's license and comply with what he says. However, having a CHL you physically have to open your mouth and say you have a firearm on you if you do. Doesn't that violate the 5th Amendment?


IMHO it has been found to violate the 5th for people ILLEGALLY carrying....so they can not be punished for not notifying. But we are struck in a crack where we MUST notify....and we are fairly certain we are in compliance....but if we were somehow not in compliance.....we have just been forced to violate our 5th amendment rights.

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:23 pm
Posts: 3182
Location: Exit 13 on the Ohio pike
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:18 pm
This might be worth reading:
Quote:
While an officer can take a gun during a frisk, the officer can’t run the serial numbers [compare New York v. Class on VINs] as a part of a frisk. United States v. Shipley, 2017 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 83985 (D. Ariz. March 3, 2017), adopted, 2017 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 83194 (D. Ariz. May 30, 2017):

However, concern for officer safety did not support Officer Rosado’s examination of the serial numbers and having the status or the weapons checked through dispatch. When a search is conducted under an exception to the warrant requirement, it must be “strictly circumscribed by the exigencies which justify its initiation.'” [ ... ]


http://fourthamendment.com/?p=27540

Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Top
Offline
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:36 am
Posts: 706
Location: Akron/Canton
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:46 am
Okay, what if the gun had been used in a crime, confiscated by the local court, turned over and sold to a FFL (instead of destroyed) and purchased from the FFL?

aka OhioPaints
Top
Offline
User avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:31 pm
Posts: 945
Location: Aberdeen (Brown Co)
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:48 am
Ken45 wrote:
Okay, what if the gun had been used in a crime, confiscated by the local court, turned over and sold to a FFL (instead of destroyed) and purchased from the FFL?
In Ohio firearms cannot be confiscated by the court. Forfeiture laws apply and if the complaint does not ask for confiscation then no matter what the outcome the firearm ownership remains with charged person. If convicted the owner can dispose of his property however he wishes. And that is per the USSC. Don't ask me for the case, I don't remember off hand.
Top
Offline
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 2720
Location: Too close to Cincinnati
Post subject: Re: Had the numbers "run" on my guns in a routine traffic st
Post Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:29 am
I had two guns stolen;. Years later, the county sheriff's deputy called and said one had been recovered in Florida. He had trouble getting them to return calls. Finally the outcome was that the local jurisdiction had a policy of destroying guns used in crimes, so I effectively had it stolen twice :(

Who knows if they really destroyed it?

aka OhioPaints
Top
Offline
User avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:31 pm
Posts: 945
Location: Aberdeen (Brown Co)
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Search for:
Jump to: