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Post subject: Re: Rifle hunting
Post Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:09 pm
jcsabolt2 wrote:
Dan,

Has there been any discussion about streamlining the PCR list so that it does NOT state cartridges by name only. As in changing the criteria to ANY straight-walled cartridges or a bottleneck cartridge under a certain length? If not, do you anticipate we will have to wait a decade or more to clean this up?

In all honesty I want a .450 Bushmaster or .458 SOCOM. I would prefer the later, but do to the bottleneck restriction it's not happening. The thing that really bugs me is that I can use the .450 Bushy in a TC Encore pistol with a 16" barrel, but can't in any rifle platform. It defies logic. I know ODNR's decision was totally political not wanting the AR platform in the woods. I hope the next time this issue is pushed it is done through the legislature and not ODNR.


First of all, we never ever want the legislature doing the business of the DNR. Some people will probably quote the suppressor bill which is fine. There were technical aspects to that bill in the ORC that could not be changed administratively by the DNR as I understand it. SO the legislative process could not be avoided with that particular issue.

Regarding the rifle criteria. We're stuck with the approved list for now. It may be edited to add more cartridges some day. Some day it may just go away and be exactly the same as the current pistol criteria. Give it a year or two or three and we'll see what we get. The DOW is notorious for doing things incrementally in baby steps which is a good thing.

Proud Member of the NRA, Crossbow Nation, Buckeye Firearms Association, Ohio Freedom Alliance

So! This is how liberty dies...With thunderous applause.
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Post subject: Re: Rifle hunting
Post Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:46 am
Buckeye Dan wrote:
jcsabolt2 wrote:
Dan,

Has there been any discussion about streamlining the PCR list so that it does NOT state cartridges by name only. As in changing the criteria to ANY straight-walled cartridges or a bottleneck cartridge under a certain length? If not, do you anticipate we will have to wait a decade or more to clean this up?

In all honesty I want a .450 Bushmaster or .458 SOCOM. I would prefer the later, but do to the bottleneck restriction it's not happening. The thing that really bugs me is that I can use the .450 Bushy in a TC Encore pistol with a 16" barrel, but can't in any rifle platform. It defies logic. I know ODNR's decision was totally political not wanting the AR platform in the woods. I hope the next time this issue is pushed it is done through the legislature and not ODNR.


First of all, we never ever want the legislature doing the business of the DNR. Some people will probably quote the suppressor bill which is fine. There were technical aspects to that bill in the ORC that could not be changed administratively by the DNR as I understand it. SO the legislative process could not be avoided with that particular issue.

Regarding the rifle criteria. We're stuck with the approved list for now. It may be edited to add more cartridges some day. Some day it may just go away and be exactly the same as the current pistol criteria. Give it a year or two or three and we'll see what we get. The DOW is notorious for doing things incrementally in baby steps which is a good thing.


Well I personally think the Legislature is one of the only powers we have to vote and have an impact on the DNR......I hold non elected agencies with large areas of power in a very dim view overall....IMHO they should be strictly constrained as to what those powers are.

Bag limits and stuff like that sure, they have the hands on info to make those decisions....but stuff like CCW while hunting, and stuff like that IMHO we need to tell them what the law is, not let them decide based on opinion and whim.

There are some gun owners who are borderline anti gunners when it comes to handguns and rifles and shotguns that look scary, and some primitive weapon owners who would like to restrict the sport to strictly primitive weapons that throw arrows....we have power with the legislature to counter their efforts courting the DNR to go their way :-). Just my .02 anyway.

Bill

American held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......for an indefinite period of time going forward..........

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Rifle hunting
Post Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:26 am
Well, in keeping with this threads initial purpose...there have been no issues regarding SWC hunting this year. I talked with Ken Fitz (law director ODNR) at the sportsman's caucus held in the state house atrium the evening HB 243 had it's concurrence vote. Where, by the way, he pointed out to me that he's the last DNR official from our very first meeting (back when it was "pistol caliber carbines") still in a position to see it through...everyone else has moved on. Anyway, Ken and I discussed the deer he harvested with his 45-70 and the deer I harvested with my .375 WIN. I am sure if there were any issues, they would have come up in that discussion.

So...yes, I was able to find a decent deal on a Marlin model 375 (essentially a 336 chambered for .375 instead of 30.30) and harvested a nice mature doe opening day. It was quite satisfying ! A coyote had come through the creek bottom below my stand that morning...and I was unable to get a shot. It made me, as I was locating it in the scope. That exact spot is where the doe balked and turned broadside. She was deciding which way to bound off after smelling all that dog scent laid down on the trail where Wil-E-Coyote had turned tail and run back upon his original route. I ended her quandary with a 200gr soft point that separated her aorta from her heart at not quite 80yds.


In other discussion...

HB243 addressed the fact that harvesting wild quadrupeds with a suppressed firearm was explicitly outlined in the ORC as illegal. The DNR could not simply change it's regulations and make them legal. There are plenty of other things the DNR will be more than capable of addressing through regulatory change. Now that SWC is behind us, we can move on, and start the process of bringing those issues to light then working our way toward mutually beneficial solutions to those items.

As for using the legislature to effect regulatory changes within the DNR, let us hope it never comes to that. There are states out there who have a DNR that is hamstrung by it's legislature. It would be a slippery slope using such strategies here in Ohio, where our DNR is made up of passionate people who are educated in their fields. Larry longer than any of us... Dan, and I have been developing a relationship with the ODNR in which there is mutual respect and understanding. It has been a long hard road, and we are here. Let us not, now, scuttle that ship we have built with talk of forcing the DNR's hand in the legislature. It is my sincere hope that we NEVER have to use our legislature to effect regulatory change with the ODNR. As the relationships we have built during the SWC issue grow, intelligent discussion and consideration of other issues is sure to follow.

Stay tuned ;)

Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths

James Madison,,
Federalist Paper No 10
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