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Post subject: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 7:15 pm
BFA's sportsman coordiator Larry moore did a wonderful piece on the subject titled handguns are for deer. Also BFA and the ODNR have a PDF file that I linked below spelling out what can and may not be used. Please see the article and linked pdf.

Handguns are for deer http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/6279

BFA, ODNR PDF of Handgun Cartridge regs.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/publicfi ... ridges.pdf

From PDF FILE

Allowable (Legal to use) Cartridges (Most popular handgun cartridges)
357 Magnum 357 Maximum 38 Special 375 Super Magnum
375 Winchester 38-55 10 Millimeter Auto 41 Action Express
41 Magnum 44 Special 44 Magnum 44 Auto Mag
445 Super Mag 444 Marlin 45 ACP 45 GAP
45 Long Colt 45 Winchester Magnum 454 Casull
460 Smith & Wesson 480 Ruger 45-70 475 Linebaugh
500 Smith & Wesson 500 Linebaugh 500 Action Express

Prohibited (Illegal) Cartridges (** identifies shouldered/necked cartridge case)
380 ACP 9 Millimeter Luger 9 Millimeter Parabellum
9x19 357 Sig 38 ACP 38 Super
357-44 ** 357 Herret** 35 Remington 375JDJ**
38-40 Winchester** 44-40 Winchester** 30-30 Thompson Contender**

As Dan pointed out and the full article and pdf point out the handgun must have a barrel no shorter than 5 inches.
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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:49 pm
Thanks for posting this. One small overlooked detail is a minimum barrel length of 5 inches. Now if we can only erase the shotgun capacity limit of 3 rounds and implement pistol caliber rifles.

Proud Member of the NRA, Crossbow Nation, Buckeye Firearms Association, Ohio Freedom Alliance

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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 7:43 am
The limit of 3 shells for shotguns is simply not going to be put on the table by the Division of Wildlife. It's viewed as a safety issue with people just banging away at running deer mainly on the public hunting lands. It was put into effect many years ago after a landowner was killed on his land while riding an atv across a ridge. Don't recall if the landowner was involved in hunting or wearing hunter orange. It was determined he was killed on the 7th shot. I've mainly switched off hunting with my shotgun to my handgun or muzzleloader. That plus my bows means that one shot works for me. I don't expect to see the 3-shot limit change.

Rifle cartridges in handguns? There is a movement to introduce rifle cartridges. It's going to take some serious work by people to convince the Division this is something their hunters want; something that will add to harvest and management of the deer herd. However, those cartridges in handguns offer an opportunity to effectively take deer. Many of these are single shot firearms so the multiple shot issue goes away. However, the Division is not going to easily be convinced of any rifle cartridge. It will take a coordinated effort - letters - showing up at the annual open houses and following up at the statewide hearings. Talk to the members of the Ohio Wildlife Council.

Some studies indicate that rifles are less dangerous than slug guns especially for the richoette factor. Interesting reading:
http://www.buckmasters.com/buckmasters- ... icleId=575
Mountain Top Technologies performed the initial study. There may be an article that I wrote on Buckeye Firearms from a couple of years ago.

Larry
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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 9:53 am
Just as has been done with concealed carry, we need to counter the irrational arguments about rifles with real-life experience from other states. Just as the streets are not running with blood since concealed-carry was passed, I don't see that it's like a war zone in PA or NY where they can use rifles to hunt deer. I've hunted with a rifle in New Hampshire in areas that are very similar to the areas I hunt in Ohio with regards to population density. We could do like many states do, make some counties slug only (Cuyahoga, Franklin, Hamilton, etc.) and make the rest open to rifles. Maybe just to get our foot in the door, we could specifiy straight-walled rifle cartridges only at first.
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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:52 am
The DNR is yet another agency where the public employees have become the public's rulers. Before the 3 shot rule I did know people who would run out ammunition and still have no deer on the ground. To me however the issue to some degree hinges on public hunting areas vs private property.

The Sunday hunting first came in on private ground only. Today we accept it as a given we can hunt on Sunday.

According to the rules on the .pdf the 357 magnum is prohibited because it does not have a bullet larger than .357" ? Yet it is listed as an allowed caliber ?

Quote:
Ohio wildlife rules 1501:31-15-11 outlines two fundamental criteria when considering a
handgun cartridge for deer hunting.
a. Bullet diameter: must be greater than .357 inches.
This is measured by micrometer in through
the center of the bullet.
b. Cartridge design: must be straight wall design and may not have any shoulder/neck.
Cartridges with a straight tapered wall are acceptable cartridges for handgun deer
hunting. (See accompanying cartridge diagram designs.)

What "slug" hunters launch today from their "shotguns" is vastly different than when the shotgun thing was dreamed up, as do archers use equipment with capabilities far in excess of when the season was introduced. Nobody back in the day would have dreamed of a 200 yard "slug gun". The same is true for muzzle loaders, although Scheutzen type rifles were muzzle loaded and did shoot elongated bullets..they did use a breech seated cartridge case, this allowed easier and more consistent cleaning between shots.

The very early years of hangun hunting in Ohio ONLY allowed revolvers...that may have been only 1 or a few years before pistols and revolvers were allowed.

I have always been more interested in handgun or muzzle loader hunting because the accuracy simply was not there for shotguns "back in the day" and while it is there now, IMHO all they offer is a quicker reload than a modern inline, the modern "slug gun" and the modern inline often shoot the same bullet at about the same velocity. A rifle in the "pistol" calibers would interest me as long as it is not only 357, 44 mag, 45 colt....I'd probably stick with the inline then.

Bill

American held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......for an indefinite period of time going forward..........

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:53 pm
I carry a T/C Contender in 357 Max for deer hunting, as there have been some nut jobs out there in the woods, I carry P220 in 45 ACP. I have my CCW and my local ODNR person said all I have to do to declare that I have concealed handgun with me. I would no carry it concealed out in the woods, it would be too hard to get out.

But now I know I have a backup for my hunting pistols.

Jerry

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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:32 pm
Jerry:

You can carry a concealed handgun in the woods now - can't recall when that got changed, but they realized that it was silly as an anti-poaching thing, and had nothing to do with safety....

However, you're not supposed to use that gun for any hunting.

As to the .357 thing - I expect that you'd read that ".357 and larger", which would likely make the .357 legal for hunting. Or come up with some .358 bullets :D....

Seems like my GM .45 is OK, too. I'd warn the deer, but I'm not a hunter :) ....

(Note to the hunting crowd: I'm not a hunter, but if you're hunting for the table, have at it! Can't get excited about removing the wildebeest population in South Africa or something like that, but there's something to be said about "thinning", too. OTOH, if you're hunting Progressives, wait'll I find my jacket!)

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:31 pm
willbird wrote:
The DNR is yet another agency where the public employees have become the public's rulers.


I think they are one of the most unaccountable to the public agencies in the state of OH. We have way better results dealing w/ the legislature. How many years have the good folks like Dan & Aaron here made our fact-based case about pistol caliber carbines to the ODNR at their open houses to yield no net change other than being "allowed" to carry our CHL pistols afield? Since the governor appoints the ODNR chief we are SOL for influencing this bureaucrat.

We the sportsman fund the ODNR with liscensing fees - I don't mind paying these fees for public land use (which is sparse in OH) and wildlife game management ... but arbitrary nonsense firearm regulations with no recourse to change with these bureaucrats is frustrating for the OH sportsman. The 3 rd capacity limit is another beyond stupid rule - firearms are not specifically designed with OH's ridiculous anti-hunter policies in mind ...

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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:46 pm
Viking wrote:
willbird wrote:
The DNR is yet another agency where the public employees have become the public's rulers.


I think they are one of the most unaccountable to the public agencies in the state of OH. We have way better results dealing w/ the legislature. How many years have the good folks like Dan & Aaron here made our fact-based case about pistol caliber carbines to the ODNR at their open houses to yield no net change other than being "allowed" to carry our CHL pistols afield? Since the governor appoints the ODNR chief we are SOL for influencing this bureaucrat.

We the sportsman fund the ODNR with liscensing fees - I don't mind paying these fees for public land use (which is sparse in OH) and wildlife game management ... but arbitrary nonsense firearm regulations with no recourse to change with these bureaucrats is frustrating for the OH sportsman. The 3 rd capacity limit is another beyond stupid rule - firearms are not specifically designed with OH's ridiculous anti-hunter policies in mind ...

Actually the Director appoints the Chief.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8079
Quote:
COLUMBUS, OH - Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR) Director James Zehringer today announced the appointment of Scott A. Zody as Chief of the ODNR Division of Wildlife.

"I appreciate Scott's service to the department and he has my full confidence in the critical position of chief of the Division of Wildlife," said Zehringer. "Scott is an avid hunter and angler and I know he'll work aggressively on behalf of Ohioans to improve opportunities for hunting, fishing, and wildlife viewing."
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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:58 am
?League of Ohio Sportsmen? is the group who can get the reg changes through ODNR. It has been brought up by a buddy at their meeting every year and a couple of old hunters who think shotgun means foster slugs and muzzle loader means roundball and black powder come up against it. This year it is going to be introduced in the most limited fashion we can think of, same cartridges as pistol in a single shot(encore, contender, etc). We tried "manually operated" the last few years.
The major argument was safety of ODNR officers. "They can't tell from a distance what kind of rifle it is" or something. The ODNR argument didn't make any sense to me. Like they van tell an Encore with muzzleloader from one with 308 from 50 yards or that it would somehow make them safer(same for lever guns and even bolt shotguns v. rifles).

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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:37 am
SMMAssociates wrote:
Jerry:

You can carry a concealed handgun in the woods now - can't recall when that got changed, but they realized that it was silly as an anti-poaching thing, and had nothing to do with safety....

However, you're not supposed to use that gun for any hunting.

As to the .357 thing - I expect that you'd read that ".357 and larger", which would likely make the .357 legal for hunting. Or come up with some .358 bullets :D....

Seems like my GM .45 is OK, too. I'd warn the deer, but I'm not a hunter :) ....

(Note to the hunting crowd: I'm not a hunter, but if you're hunting for the table, have at it! Can't get excited about removing the wildebeest population in South Africa or something like that, but there's something to be said about "thinning", too. OTOH, if you're hunting Progressives, wait'll I find my jacket!)

Regards,


African hunting is often misunderstood. The hunter is doing it for sport, he is paying large trophy fees and hiring locals and guides and workers in the hunting camp, and the locals eat the meat. AND the animals are often over populated. AND properly managed hunting reduces poaching where the animal is slain, the ivory hacked out, and the corpse left to rot. The harsh reality is that the animal population in many areas must be reduced to make room for people and agriculture.

Bill

American held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......for an indefinite period of time going forward..........

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:12 pm
Bill:

As I mentioned, "thinning" doesn't bother me. (Hadn't thought about the locals getting useful money out of the deal - there's a fine line between that and pure sport hunting, though....)

Locally, we have a bunch of deer in Youngstown's Mill Creek Park (and other areas), and hunters have been hired (bow hunters, at least) to deal with that. (The toll on cars is outstanding....) The locals went ballistic over the idea.... Genuine "you're going to shoot Bambi's Mother?".... Lotta people around here would rather the deer starve....

'Course, there's the deer that my buddy Joe hit with his truck about a year ago. The deer got to keep the truck, I think.... :D

(Seriously, it took about a year to get the truck back into good running condition. Hitting a telephone pole probably wouldn't have done as much damage.)

Same problem - too many dear for the habitat, so they range all over the place looking for food.

I've been considering the sign allegedly posted at one of these anti-hunting rallies: "STOP Hunting. Get your meat at the local supermarket, where no animals are harmed."

Makes you wonder....

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:16 pm
Interesting, will have to follow this to see where it goes.

This would give us more options and maybe bring "new" hunters to the field.

As for me, I've been hunting since I've been 12, that's a while ago, in the last 20+ years, I've gotten into "handgun" hunting.

Prior to that, I have had sucess in putting meat in the freezer with a rifled barreled scoped shotgun and I like the one shot challenge in using one of my scoped muzzleloaders.

For handguns I have had sucess with:
44 Mag: Scoped Ruger Blackhawk Hunter "Semi-Stalker" built by Larry Kelly of Magnaport
.444 Marlin: Scoped T/C Encore, built by J.D. Jones of SSK Industries
10mm: Dan Wesson 1911 Razorback

I tip my hat to the bow hunters out here, having the time and patience to spend afield.

I usually only get a "hall pass" allowing one day or so to hunt, some years I come home empty, some not.

This last season I took 2 deer on opening day with my 10mm.

Back to OP topic with Handgun Cartridges to be used with rifles, I'll try to plan on going to our local ODNR "Open House" meeting, (Northeast Ohio) Wildlife District Three Office n Saturday March 3rd, to plant some more seeds.

It was great to be at the recent 2A Conference & "Bash" a few weeks back, great time!!

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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:36 pm
Thanks rz10! glad to see you decided to join us here in teh forums...

When Stu catches you, he's going to suggest you introduce yourself in the "Welcome New Members" section, and read the forum guidelines...but I'll let him do that ;)

Meeting today with the ODNR and Farm Bureau. Details in the appropriate thread below...

Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths

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Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:19 pm
I will be bringing it up at the SW Ohio meeting as long as I can make it.

I can't support BFA because BFA chooses not support free elections.
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