Forum rules


Moderator Aaron: The U.S. Sportsman's Alliance has given BFA (and me personally) permission to reproduce any of their articles here in the Great Outdoors forum or on our home page, in their entirety, as long as the original source is given credit.
 Page 2 of 3 [ 32 posts ] Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author
Message
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:28 pm
Thanks! Take friends with you...

Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths

James Madison,,
Federalist Paper No 10
Top
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:28 pm
Posts: 1590
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:35 pm
Well, don't get too excited. THis rule has been submitted yearly and top leadership doesn't like it. The ODNR officers at your meeting will be against if they comment and will either give no explanation or cite officer safety/poaching concerns and not elaborate. At least, that is what has happened in the past. It seems every year more people support it though.

I can't support BFA because BFA chooses not support free elections.
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 183
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:45 pm
Been working on this for over 6 yrs...not getting excited anymore ;)

Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths

James Madison,,
Federalist Paper No 10
Top
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:28 pm
Posts: 1590
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:15 pm
If you can get LOOS to approve it at their yearly meeting ODNR will pretty much adopt it(at least that is how it works for most things). Problem is a lot of LOOS attendees are old guys who want to make everyone else hunt with flintlocks and field dress with a dull tomahawk, even if they haven't been able to hunt for ten years. Same in my hunting club.

I can't support BFA because BFA chooses not support free elections.
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 183
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:29 pm
johnwilliamson062 wrote:
If you can get LOOS to approve it at their yearly meeting ODNR will pretty much adopt it(at least that is how it works for most things). Problem is a lot of LOOS attendees are old guys who want to make everyone else hunt with flintlocks and field dress with a dull tomahawk, even if they haven't been able to hunt for ten years. Same in my hunting club.


We involved LOOS. They voted against our proposal. We involved everyone who amounted to anything. LOOS is the only one that voted us down. LOOS clearly does not represent what they once did. Keep in mind this is also an organization that keeps recycling the same leadership that was opposed to the introduction of the crossbow in this state. A very successful tool we have been using for almost 35 years. Same goes for the compound bow. They have allowed themselves to remain contaminated by special interests and perpetuated infighting to the point they are barely relevant today.

It's a shame to see an organization that has been around since 1908 go the way that they have but it's historically inescapable. Without a certain amount of modern relevance and flexibility time will pass them by. So sad.

On the upside it lends growth to organizations like the BFA. We support all legal forms of hunting. We operate by a general consensus in a real time modern communication environment. We have no special interests to influence us. A board of biased individuals will never linger for 30 or 40 years to control the outcome of real time modern decisions.

It's a win for all sportsmen. It's inevitable. One tiny group of angry old men will no longer be able to smack the gavel of negativity on things our neighbors have been doing for decades because they don't like it. LOOS has rendered themselves as obsolete as the rules that prevent us from using 120 year old firearms to hunt deer with.

Proud Member of the NRA, Crossbow Nation, Buckeye Firearms Association, Ohio Freedom Alliance

So! This is how liberty dies...With thunderous applause.
Top
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 2:46 pm
Posts: 3243
Location: Newark, OH
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:50 am
rz10:

Welcome aboard!

Aaron's correct about the sticky :D.... It's at http://forums.buckeyefirearms.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10097. Not mandatory, but it might explain something. Or scare you off :mrgreen:....

Enjoy!

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

יזכר לא עד פעם
Top
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:01 pm
Posts: 6713
Location: Youngstown OH
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:56 am
"Keep in mind this is also an organization that keeps recycling the same leadership"
Yeah, one or two of them belong to the same club as I.

ODNR still seems to cater to them.

I can't support BFA because BFA chooses not support free elections.
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 183
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:26 pm
rz10 wrote:
For handguns I have had sucess with:
10mm: Dan Wesson 1911 Razorback

This last season I took 2 deer on opening day with my 10mm.

Not trying to beat up on a new guy, but trying to save you some potential heartache.

Unless that is a long slide DW 1911 with a 6" barrel, that is not legal for deer hunting in Ohio.

Ordinary common sense would assume the regulations require a 5" barrel, and everyone "knows" a standard full size 1911 has a 5" barrel.

But the "gotcha" comes in the definitions. The BATF***ers and everyone else in the firearms industry measures barrel length in a semi-automatic from the breech face to the end of the muzzle. By that standard, the Gov't model 1911 has a 5" barrel.

But our bureaucratic overseers in the ODNR chose to redefine barrel length as the distance from the end of the chamber to the muzzle. Since the 10 mm has a 0.990" case length, and the chamber is sized to allow the round to headspace on the case mouth, the barrel length is about 4.01 inches by ODNR standards and thus illegal to hunt deer.

I believe the regulation was written with revolvers in mind, where speaking of a 4" or 6" barrel is understood to mean the actual barrel in front of the cylinder.

This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed!

It will become a recovery when Obama loses his job.

Living in the Obamination. Μολών Λαβέ
Top
Offline
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:12 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Houston TX (formerly Franklin County OH)
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:34 pm
Jumping Frog wrote:
rz10 wrote:
For handguns I have had sucess with:
10mm: Dan Wesson 1911 Razorback

This last season I took 2 deer on opening day with my 10mm.

Not trying to beat up on a new guy, but trying to save you some potential heartache.

Unless that is a long slide DW 1911 with a 6" barrel, that is not legal for deer hunting in Ohio.

Ordinary common sense would assume the regulations require a 5" barrel, and everyone "knows" a standard full size 1911 has a 5" barrel.

But the "gotcha" comes in the definitions. The BATF***ers and everyone else in the firearms industry measures barrel length in a semi-automatic from the breech face to the end of the muzzle. By that standard, the Gov't model 1911 has a 5" barrel.

But our bureaucratic overseers in the ODNR chose to redefine barrel length as the distance from the end of the chamber to the muzzle. Since the 10 mm has a 0.990" case length, and the chamber is sized to allow the round to headspace on the case mouth, the barrel length is about 4.01 inches by ODNR standards and thus illegal to hunt deer.

I believe the regulation was written with revolvers in mind, where speaking of a 4" or 6" barrel is understood to mean the actual barrel in front of the cylinder.


Thanks for the welcomes & concerns with our Ohio "Alowable Hunting Equipment".

Our current law reads:
Handgun - 5-in min. length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger

In going to prior ODNR "Open Houses" as I have been an active Pro-Poponent to get our "Handgun Laws" to where they are today. (Prior to the current law we were restricted to .44 mag as the max caliber)

I have asked this same question prior and this morning I called ODNR about this specific pistol in question, a 1911 10mm 5" barreled handgun. Again, I received a positive "yes"!!

To confirm this, I emailed (today) my local county ODNR Officer, here is his reply:

"Rich,
There are three criteria for a handgun in order for it to be a legal hunting implement for white-tailed deer in Ohio. They are as follows:
(1) Chambered for .357 caliber magnum or larger.
(2) Using a straight walled cartridge.
(3) Single barrel not less than five inches in length, as measured
from the front of the cylinder or chamber to the end of the
barrel.
I believe this answers your question. Good luck."

So, after receiving the above email, I confirmed via/phone with JD Jones of SSK Industries (Handgun Hunters International) home of the hand cannons, JD said too many people try to read into things. On a pistol, a "chamber" starts where the cartridge goes in the barrel, to keep it simple just put a pencil down the barrel to measure.

I'm not going to read any more into this as (for me) I have done all I can to cover myself on this issue.

Best regards - Rich

VN Vet, (Twice) Agent Orange Cancer Survivor
VFW & NRA - Life Member
USCCA - Member Since: 2005
Top
Offline
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Broadview Heights, OH
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:22 am
Did you do the pencil measurement from "the front of the cylinder or chamber" as your ODNR officer indicated?
I think this is a technical mistake due to ignorance and I seriously doubt any ODNR officer will call you on it, but I think Jumping Frog's post is right along with your ODNR officer. The person you spoke to at ODNR home office and the wildlife officer you spoke to likely don't know enough about guns to understand the question without an in person demonstration. If they do they probably prefer to overlook it as to dealing with enforcing it or attempting to correct it. Not something I would worry about.

I can't support BFA because BFA chooses not support free elections.
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 183
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:52 am
johnwilliamson062 wrote:
Did you do the pencil measurement from "the front of the cylinder or chamber" as your ODNR officer indicated?

Measured with calipers (5.065) with another 1911 10mm Goverment Model I have - So, a 5" barrel or longer, is "Allowable Hunting Equipment" for White-tailed Deer, as measured (on this handgun, not having a cylinder) from the front of the chamber to the end of the barrel.

Please do not take offence to my prior post, If I have offended anyone I deeply and sincerely apologize.

I am thnking postively in what I have been told prior with having many face to face meetings with ODNR Officers as to what is "legal", then due to this recent brought about question of "legal barrel length", I "actively contacted" our ODNR and received a verbal "Green Light", additionally I emailed my (Belmont) county ODNR Officer receiving the go ahead.

Then, going the extra mile, I again confirmed with a highly renown expert, to insure that what I have hunted with is "legal".

"I did the home work" prior to hunting last season and "I just did it again" to insure "legality".

If the law required a longer barrel in this configuration I certainly would have done so, or just used another "legal" hunting implement.

I passed this specific 1911 10mm Goverment Model handgun I used last gun season to my son at Christmas for his enjoyment.

I am getting ready for next season with some new T/C fiber optic open sights on my 10" barreled T/C Blued Contender chambered in 10mm for that one shot opportunity.

Best Regards - Rich

VN Vet, (Twice) Agent Orange Cancer Survivor
VFW & NRA - Life Member
USCCA - Member Since: 2005
Top
Offline
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Broadview Heights, OH
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:12 am
I'll add my $0.02 here.

According to the Ohio Administrative Code 1501:31-15-11 Deer Regulations, paragraph C.2.a.iii.c states "Single barrel not less than five inches in length, as measured from the front of the cylinder or chamber to the end of the barrel." Emphesis provided by myself.

I'm no lawyer, that is pretty plain and simple language for me. Also in OAC 1501:31-1-02 Definition of Terms, there is NO other definition for barrel length.

The gentlemen is correct, his 5" 1911 is good to go!
Top
Offline
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:20 am
Posts: 123
Location: Springfield, OH
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:28 pm
need to get 300blk added to handgun and PCR or 30 carbine for that matter
Top
Offline
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:26 am
Posts: 17
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:04 pm
300blk isn't a straight-walled handgun cartridge so not likely that will happen.

Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Top
Offline
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:36 am
Posts: 690
Location: Akron/Canton
Post subject: Re: Ohio Legal Deer Handgun Cartridges
Post Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:57 am
Ring wrote:
need to get 300blk added to handgun and PCR or 30 carbine for that matter


Kinda sad considering there were a couple of really cool handguns that used the .30 Carbine round.

Nothing below .357 has made the cut for handguns and neither has anything necked. I'll be happy if the rifle criteria duplicates the existing pistol criteria some day.

Quote:
Bullet diameter: must be greater than .357 inches.
Cartridge design: must be straight wall design and may not have any shoulder/neck.


If and when we get to there, I'll be happy!

Proud Member of the NRA, Crossbow Nation, Buckeye Firearms Association, Ohio Freedom Alliance

So! This is how liberty dies...With thunderous applause.
Top
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 2:46 pm
Posts: 3243
Location: Newark, OH
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 2 of 3 [ 32 posts ] Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Search for:
Jump to: