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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:48 am
I'm new to the forum and waiting for my CHL permit; after reading through this thread, I wanted to add my two cents worth. First, you need to know who the "Governing Authority" is for your local Church. This will differ from denomination to denomination, however, most will have a "Constitution" for the denomination that primarily covers Theological concerns and the establishment of local "Governing Authority" (there is more, but, I don't want to parse all of that). Second, the local Church should have a set of bylaws that dictate local policy, things such as the dates of annual meetings of the congregation, election of Church officers, establishing sanctioned funds for the purpose of directed giving, (this allows a congregant to direct their tithes and offerings and still be able to use that giving for tax purposes) and anything not covered by the Constitution for their denomination or to clarify how the local Church will comply. If the denomination doesn't prohibit concealed carry, then it is the responsibility of the Governing Authority to grant permission. The best policy in my opinion would be to add the exemption to the bylaws of the local Church. This would eliminate lists and provide clear evidence of compliance with current Ohio law. No signage restricting or prohibiting would be necessary and you wouldn't need to keep personal letters of permission to prove compliance. I was on the board of my local Church when the CHL law was being debated and the subject came up at our board meeting; we voted to not declare the Church as "gun free" because we didn't want to impose any restrictions to Constitutional freedoms, however, that was before the law was passed and that vote was moot after the law was enacted. I will be discussing this with some other members who are permit holders and petition the current board. I hope this will be corrected by future legislation, but, we should comply with the law until we can get it amended.
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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:26 pm
Specials Tech:

Welcome Aboard!

There's a sticky at http://forums.buckeyefirearms.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10097 that you ought to have a look at, but it's not mandatory. It may be sleep inducing, or result in blasphemous comments, but at least you'll get some idea of who's here, how things work, and who the little dog in my avatar is :D....

Thanks for the post, too! Most of us probably know that, but may only be aware of how our particular denomination works. Seems to vary all over the map, from "go ahead" to "What? You want to bring a gun where?". In a Jewish congregation, for example, the Rabbi usually lacks the "political" power to affirm or deny, but may have enough influence to keep the Board from doing much of anything about it negatively. However, my last Rabbi and I used to shoot together, but the new ones (the plural part is a long story), while they might go along with the Board, would likely freak.

Stupid law, IMHO....

(Sure would be nice if we could change the bylaws, but the Board's almost as bad.)

I'm sure that there's no formal position either way, but if I ask 'em, there might be tomorrow :( ....

Just one instance, but bear in mind that "find a Church that agrees with you" doesn't work two well when there are only four Synagogues in town....

(Some 40 years ago - my attendance was always a little spotty anyhow - I was called and asked to show up on a Friday night, and to bring my gun.... The threat that was involved is still there, but the will to protect the congregation isn't....)

Finally, a bit of cussing :D .... Paragraphs, please, when possible. It's a little easier to read a long message that way. I get accused of being long-winded all the time, but at least I know how to make paragraph breaks. Saves time when you want to run screaming out of the room, too - you don't have to read as far :mrgreen: ....

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:32 pm
Any church/synagogue that denies your right is violating the very Covenant they claim to promote.
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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:07 pm
COL:

Yeah, but they're likely going to run with "find another Church".... :(

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:26 pm
Nice to see the thread is still running, Stu! Good to see you and Sammy, too.

I can do ALL THINGS through Him who gives me strength. Phillipians 4:13

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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:46 pm
Skip:

Yeah, still here, and still at it.... Miss you around here, though.

Sammy's been behaving (I'm sure he's up to something :D), Peaches the cat is her usual "into everything" self, and Duke, who's afraid of himself, got a haircut a couple weeks ago, and since it was cold, Becka bought him a sweater. He won't let me take it off, and now pesters me for petting. But very shyly :D.... (Becka's working in Columbus. She pops up here every once in a while to shake us up.)

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:03 pm
I haven't been doing much of anything oonline, Stu. Working 4-12 puts a crimp on life in general! I get to sleep about 3, up at 10:30, take care of horses, walk the dogs, shower and back to work. Ugh!

Simon got a playmate last summer: an older black lab that got turned out from her home cuz she wouldn't hunt. Yes, that's true :( Anyhow, she has a bforever home now. She and Simon run and swim and romp... and sleep.

Glad you get to see Becka from time to time! My kids barely talk to me. Such is life. Maybe one day they will wake up. I was 40 before my dad and I became best friends.

I can do ALL THINGS through Him who gives me strength. Phillipians 4:13

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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:52 am
Skip:

Basically retired at this point. I'm looking to find something I can do from home, though, to bring in a few bucks. Now that I've got a car again (short form: the lawyer screwed up mom's estate, and it took six months to get the paperwork together before I could put plates on it), at least I'm getting out. Sherri stole my Lincoln (actually, my idea - she put three years worth of mileage on it while she was driving it), and while I could have the car in the evenings, that didn't help going to get a haircut :D....

I guess that black lab didn't like fresh meat or something :D.... As long as you and she (and Simon) are happy, not all dogs are working dogs. While a JRT makes a pretty good alarm system, they're not worth much more. 'Course, they don't know that.... My goofy sister got dog #6 a little while back. Some kind of teacup breed. I've lost count.... But she's single, and likes the company. They're a riot in El Paso, and when they're at her Dallas place, they have their own room (with a TV). Makes my wife a little crazy, but they're fun. Two of them, if memory serves, are at least as big as Sammy. The rest are all tiny.

When Becka was in El Paso, we only saw her once in a while, other than two trips down there to see my mom. First time, Sherri and I spent a few days down there - mom was in good shape, and we all bounced around El Paso a bit. That was around 1 October 2011. (We celebrated "restaurant carry" by driving by a Luby's and me explaining it to Sherri.) Then, around Thanksgiving, mom took sick, and we set up everything, including an obit. Mom screwed us up by making a good recovery :D.... Becka wanted me to come down and see her new apartment, and install a showerhead in her bath, too.... Lots of hoohah with reservations, but I ended up being there when mom passed. The Youngstown funeral director called me before I could call him.... It took more time to set up our flight to Pittsburgh.... (My sister, Becka, and myself. Becka grabbed the window seat and promptly fell asleep....) February 2012....

I "talk" to Becka occasionally by e-mail, or when she calls. She's old enough to do her own thing, so I just let her - she knows she can always ask for information or assistance.

Dad was a pretty smart guy, too :D.... He passed in 1999. But he was a bit of a control freak, and I'm just enough of one, too, that we collided once in a while. Mostly I let him holler, then did what I wanted. Biggest problem was that he really didn't respect me until I was way over 21. I almost tossed him out of the car once - mom was in the grocery store (they'd just come home from FL), and he started trying to tell me how to run my business. Wouldn't have minded too much, but he had absolutely no idea what I was doing, or how to do it, and got hopping mad because I wouldn't do it his way. I finally decided that I'd have to go back and get him anyway :D....

One contention: He was a dentist, and felt that anything that went to a client had to be billable. Pretty much like charging a guy to give him a business card!

Hope your kids get the idea eventually. Becka's 28, which I find hard to believe, but has always known that I'd listen to her. 'Course, she listens to me a little better now :D.... But kids have a problem with that....

One cute story: Becka was the "Charge Nurse" in her ER for a while in El Paso. She had to man the radio that connected with the ambulances. After a messy radio exchange, getting ready to accept an inbound patient, one of the other nurses walked over: "How do you make any sense out of that radio? Sounds like gibberish to me." Becka told her that "my dad's always been some kind of cop, and there's been some kind of "Police Radio" in his car, or in the house, since I was very little. I'm just used to it...."

I just wish I knew now what I thought I knew at 18. Or at least remembered it :D....

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:30 pm
Stu,

Is this the beginning of a novel or just a short story?

Since Alic Baldwins demise at msnbc you could write a new miniseries for them. This should bring in a few bucks.

Please don't leave us with this cliffhanger. When will the next chapter be released???? :egrin:
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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:57 pm
COL:

Just a short story :D....

Between Becka, Sammy, and the Attack Cats, things get pretty funny around here sometimes.

(Not to mention the crazy stuff my wife does.)

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:48 pm
Like a cat, I've tied a ribbon with a bell around my wife's neck so I can hear her sneaking up on me.

Like that does any good!!!!!!!!!
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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:38 pm
You folks from Ohio can point to Illinois in about a year. The first people are getting their CHLs now. Church carry is allowed under our carry law unless the church is posted. Churches with schools have a problem as schools must be posted.

I think that posting will be more common in Chicago than downstate. The Chicago Sun Times ran an article on churches and if they were going to post. I got asked by the spokesperson for Illinoiscarry.com if my pastor would do an interview as we don't intent to post. He never got a call but just this week a story ran where they talked to several pastors whose church would be posted and one pastor of a church of 35 members. My church has about 150 members. The fact that they interviewed only one pro-carry pastor of a very small church made the article unbalanced
to me. There is a Chicago area legislator who has a bill that would add all churches to the CPZ list. I doubt it goes anywhere.

I thought I'd add a little history that might explain why we don't have churches as a CPZ. In 2009 Mary Shepard was almost beaten to death by a man who broke into her church, during the day, where she worked as secretary, another working there was beaten as well. Mary Shepard was about 70 years old at he time and had two non-resident CHLs from other states. She was plaintiff in the lawsuit Shepard vs. Madigan which when to the Federal Circuit court in Benton Illinois. Her case was combined with a similar case Moore vs. Madigan. The judge hearing the case ruled that Illinois Unlawful Use of Weapons laws were unconstitutional because there was no way for citizens to legally bear arms outside their homes and property. The judge instructed the state legislature to pass carry legislation.

Illinois passed a shall issue concealed carry law at the end of the spring 2013 legislative session. They gave the Illinois State Police months of time to set up training requirements and get an application process set up. Mary Shepard just got her CHL this week.
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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:23 am
I was in Akron Ohio visiting my daughters family. I carried through Illinois, Indiana and Ohio. I was a little disappointed to find out from my son in law that their church had not made a decision to allow concealed carry. He said the leadership was going to reconsider the issue in 6 months. This is one of the few times I haven't carried in a church service for quite a while. I've been carrying in church before I got my Illinois CHL as carry was permitted on private property with permission before the carry law passed. I'm a church elder and gave myself permission to do so. My pastor likes the idea of having some folks armed, BTW.

There was an anti-gun Illinois legislator that was trying to get legislation passed that would require churches to post if they wanted to allow carry. His bill never came up for a vote.

You Ohio folks need to get your law changed.

I'm glad you got the rest area buildings off the CPZ list in Ohio. They aren't in Illinois, something we need to work on. Carry in restaurants that serve alcohol is OK if they don't post.
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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:57 pm
junglebob wrote:
You Ohio folks need to get your law changed.

We are working on it. It is in one of the bills for this legislative session (though I can't remember which).

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Post subject: Re: Churches in Ohio that allow carrying
Post Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:22 pm
JustaShooter wrote:
junglebob wrote:
You Ohio folks need to get your law changed.

We are working on it. It is in one of the bills for this legislative session (though I can't remember which).


Glad to hear it is being worked on. Hopefully an incident won't happen in Ohio, like happened at First Baptist Church in Maryville, Illinois where Pastor Fred Winters was killed as he preached in March of 2008.
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