Page 1 of 3 [ 33 posts ] Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author
Message
Post subject: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:01 am
Does anybody know if they ban carrying at the Dublin Irish Featival?
Top
Offline
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 4
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:31 pm
Quote:
Festival Frequently Asked Questions
What is not permitted at the Festival?

Alcohol
Cans or Glass bottles
Hard-sided coolers
Soft-sided insulated bags larger than standard 6-pack size,
Pets of any kind except working dogs and registered Celtic Canines
Weapons or fireworks of any kind
Bikes, rollerblades, skateboards, etc. inside Festival grounds
Peddling or soliciting inside Festival grounds
No smoking is allowed under any tents or in any buildings at the Festival


http://dublinirishfestival.org/festival-faqs/
Top
Offline
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:37 pm
Posts: 161
Location: Cuyahoga County
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:26 pm
The DIF is run by the city of Dublin and is on city property. If I understand correctly, they cannot ban.
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 9:06 am
Posts: 43
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:17 am
I'll stop by today (Sunday) and see what they have to say.

What does a caring, sensitive
person feel when they are forced
to use a handgun to stop a threat?


Recoil.
Top
Offline
User avatar
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:49 am
Posts: 517
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:51 am
sd790 wrote:
The DIF is run by the city of Dublin and is on city property. If I understand correctly, they cannot ban.



That's what I believe, but I'm not quite certain. I know they posted their ban, but I think anything a city does is trumped by state law.
Top
Offline
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 4
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:02 pm
It appears it is held at a city park. So long as you don't enter a building besides a restroom or shelter house, they can not ban your carrying a concealed handgun (assuming you have a CHL). Of course, zero consumption of adult beverages. Preemption went in to effect March 14, 2007 and was upheld by the Ohio Supreme Court and they can't make up their own rules.

2009 NRA "Sybil Ludington Women's Freedom Award" recipient
Member of the National Rifle Association's Board of Directors
Buckeye Firearms Association's Vice President
NRA Benefactor Member, NRA Certified Instructor, NRA-EVC, Realtor
Top
Offline
Region Leader
User avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:45 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: 20 nautical miles east of the Statehouse
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:10 pm
Linda wrote:
It appears it is held at a city park. So long as you don't enter a building besides a restroom or shelter house, they can not ban your carrying a concealed handgun (assuming you have a CHL). Of course, zero consumption of adult beverages. Preemption went in to effect March 14, 2007 and was upheld by the Ohio Supreme Court and they can't make up their own rules.


I'm heading over there in a few minutes. Any recommendations on how to proceed to get them to remove the invalid rule?
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 9:06 am
Posts: 43
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:56 pm
A little late now, but be sure to avoid the Sunday Morning Mass: it could be considered a 'place of worship'.
Top
Offline
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:40 am
Posts: 3
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:41 pm
The DIF was posted on their big sign at the gate which listed what was not permitted. In the middle of the list, it said "NO WEAPONS". I went through the gate and asked who was in charge. I identified myself as a Concealed Carry Licensee and explained briefly how the no weapons restriction was in violation of ORC 504.04 and ORC 9.68. The volunteer in charge was polite and wrote down my concerns in his notebook for feedback to the organizers. I asked for his name and the name of someone who I can follow up with to ensure that this illegal restriction is not part of next year's DIF. I then thanked for his time and thanked him for volunteering.

Please let me know if I missed any key points or if you have any advice for my follow up with the city.

By the way, the Dublin Irish Festival was very nice. My whole family enjoyed it. :)
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 9:06 am
Posts: 43
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:32 pm
sd790-

ORC 504.04 only relates to townships, not cities.

As far as asking the organizers to change something, I don't think that will be enough.

I chose not to attend a festival run by a city that violates a state law at my expense.

I will contact the Dublin Law Director tomorrow.

I'm sure that if I can get Dublin to repeal their Assault Weapons Ban and repeal their Large Capacity Magazine Ban, I can get them to add a firearms exception to their ordinance # 96.23 ("No persons in a park except officers...shall carry...dangerous weapons.")

I'll upload audio of my interaction soon.

What does a caring, sensitive
person feel when they are forced
to use a handgun to stop a threat?


Recoil.
Top
Offline
User avatar
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:49 am
Posts: 517
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:03 am
Here's the audio of my interactions with a lady at the entrance to the Dublin Irish Festival, a lady who was running around hither and thither, and the 5 or more (my wife lost count)Dublin police officers that surrounded and flanked me.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6gtW6D ... sp=sharing

While everyone was completely professional, they were most likely simply misinformed.

The first lady I spoke to contacted the police department via radio and, after getting info from them, told me I could not enter with a weapon. When I asked what law that was, she replied, "That's our own home rule law. We don't have to follow anybody's but our own at that point."

Obviously, she has not been informed about ORC 9.68 and the Ohio Supreme Court decision in Cleveland v. State, 128 Ohio St.3d 135, 2010-Ohio-6318.

The Dublin police officers were more specific as to their local ordinance which they were enforcing. Dublin ordinance 96.23 says
Quote:
"No person in a park except officers or the Director shall carry on his or her person knives, bows and arrows, crossbows, air and gas guns, missiles or missile-throwing devices, or other dangerous weapons without having first obtained written permission from the Director."


They removed the words "firearms of any desription" from this ordinance just last year, but the current police are including firearms under the "other dangerous weapons" phrase.

Again, hopefully this is just a lack of training as to the intent of ORC 9.68. If the officers realized that they were violating a state law by their interpretation of their ordinance, I may have been able to enjoy the featival, I mean, festival.

:P

I have sent an email to council and will be contacting their law director on Monday.

What does a caring, sensitive
person feel when they are forced
to use a handgun to stop a threat?


Recoil.
Top
Offline
User avatar
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:49 am
Posts: 517
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:07 am
If anyone cares, here is the bulk of the email I sent to Dublin council members:

Quote:
On Sunday, August 4, 2013, I was denied entry into the Dublin Irish Festival because I was wearing an openly carried handgun in a hip holster.

When I asked which law allowed this, the lady at the ticket table told me, "That's our own home rule law. We don't have to follow anybodys but our own at that point."

This lady was extremely courteous, but un-informed about Ohio Revised Code 9.68 and the Ohio Supreme Court decision in Cleveland v. State.

When I got a chance to speak with 5 or so of the Dublin police officers at the festival entrance, they pointed out Dublin Ordinance 96.23 as their supporting law to deprive me of attending the festival while armed.

These officers, while nothing less than professional, were not aware of Dublin Ordinance 16-12, which updated codified Ord. 96.23 to meet the legal requirements of ORC 9.68 after the Cleveland v. State decision.

The current members of the Dublin City Council and the current Chief of Police were all present at the March 26, 2013 council meeting where this ordinance was passed.

Prior to 2012, 98.26(A) of the city code read, "No person in a park except officers or the Director shall carry on his or her person firearms of any description, knives, bows and arrows, crossbows, air and gas guns, missiles or missile-throwing devices, or other dangerous weapons without having first obtained written permission from the Director."

After the passage of Ord 16-12, that same code now reads, "No person in a park except officers or the Director shall carry on his or her person knives, bows and arrows, crossbows, air and gas guns, missiles or missile-throwing devices, or other dangerous weapons without having first obtained written permission from the Director."

While the words "firearms of any description" were removed from the code, Dublin police officers are inferring that firearms are included in the undefined phrase "other dangerous weapons". While I believe this violates the intent and spirit of Ord. 16-12, it CLEARLY violates ORC 9.68.

These same officers also confirmed that this weapons restriction is in effect for all Dublin parks and at all times of the year, not just at the Irish Festival.

I would recommend that Dublin City Council act IMMEDIATELY to remedy this situation.

I have several recommendations:

First, amend codified ordinance 96.23, Section (A), to add an explicit exception for firearms. This will prevent an untrained officer from making this mistake in the future.

Second, train the Chief of Police and all officers under his command on Ohio Revised Code 9.68 and what it means. If the officers I interacted with had simply been aware of the intent of ORC 9.68, they possibly would not have read something into their ordinance that wasn't there, thus not violating state law.

Third, do not post "No Weapons" rules at any future event where such posting might violate the law or the rights of a citizen. I would suggest changing the "No weapons or fireworks" rule at the Irish Festival to, "No fireworks. No illegal weapons."

Fourth, train or advise the entire staff of the City of Dublin that the Home Rule amendment of the Ohio no longer applies to laws regarding firearms. Rather than read Ohio Supreme Court decisions to them, such as OFCC v. City of Clyde, or Cleveland v. State, simply explain to them that no public entity within the state can regulate the possession, sale or tranport of firearms, firearms parts or firearms ammunition. Only federal and state laws can regulate firearms within this state.


Yours truly, lots of love, blah blah blah...

What does a caring, sensitive
person feel when they are forced
to use a handgun to stop a threat?


Recoil.
Top
Offline
User avatar
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:49 am
Posts: 517
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:37 am
Awesome! Thank you! I've learned much from you here. If I can assist in any way, give me a yell.
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 9:06 am
Posts: 43
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:52 am
sd790 wrote:
Awesome! Thank you! I've learned much from you here. If I can assist in any way, give me a yell.


Could you hear the audio okay? I had to remove a lot of noise because, well, we were at the festival.


What are you doing on August 12 around 7pm? Dublin council meeting?

I've worked with their law director before on this city and another. We'll probably have a result within days instead of months.

Or, Tuesday, August 13? Bexley council meeting?

Bexley has a park posted. They claim their Park department run day-care program is a school, so they can post the park premises. I have to go tell them something different.

And don't forget that Ohioans for Concealed Carry is having their Party in the Park in Powell (actually Liberty Township) on Sunday, August 11. No cost to attend. I think they sold out of tickets for meals, so you would have to bring your own picnic. There will be an awful lot of folks there, all like-minded.

I think that's a good thing...?

:mrgreen:

What does a caring, sensitive
person feel when they are forced
to use a handgun to stop a threat?


Recoil.
Top
Offline
User avatar
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:49 am
Posts: 517
Post subject: Re: Dublin Irish Featival?
Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:18 am
The audio is great. Thanks for your good work. (PM sent)
Top
Offline
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 9:06 am
Posts: 43
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 3 [ 33 posts ] Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 1 guest

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Search for:
Jump to: