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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:03 am
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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:48 pm
The Red Cross has an option like this for CPR and First Aid. There are some things that should be instructor led only.

Interested in C.E.R.T? PM me
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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:46 pm
Has anyone determined if this is a requirement yet if one teaches the NRA course? The way I read the most recent email they sent out today is the blended learning is the only way to teach the NRA Class once it goes into full effect. There will not be the option to do a 12 hour NRA Basic Pistol course anymore.

The way I come to that conclusion is from these two statements...

Quote:
Myth: Students who do not have computers or internet access will not be able to get training.
Fact: Access to computers is widely available at public libraries in both rural and urban centers all over the country. The e-Learning classroom segment of the course will also be available using a mobile device such as a smartphone or a tablet. If the student is still unable to locate a computer, smartphone, or tablet, the instructor could secure access to one of these devices for them.


I would think they would have also said instructors can teach the full course if they still desire too if that was even an option.

I'm trying to figure out if developing my own course with my own booklet and certificate is now in order or not.
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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:12 pm
When the blended learning goes into full effect next year you won't even be able to buy a student packet for NRA Basic Pistol. That entire class will be on line with instructors giving final "sign off" of things like safe gun handling, marksmanship loading and unloaded various pistols etc.

Just my WAG but the based on other NRA on line courses Basic Pistol will be $100+. Currently OH does not recognize online training so where does that leave us?

If OH persist with a 12 hour class, you will just have to basically teach Basic Pistol or a large portion of it, as your own course. Issue your own certificates etc. Not to many OH CHL seekers are going to want to spend hours and $ taking basic pistol on line then spend another 12 hours in a class with an instructor spending more money and more time.

This is a post on Face Book from the NRA Certified Instructors page. It is in the comments of a post where someone asked about Basic Pistol Student packets. He asked if had student packets left over would he be able to use those packets in 2015 when blended learning was fully instituted. Huge discussion ensued but someone emailed John Howard and he got a reply. He states, NRA response is in all caps.

Will Instructors still be able to get the packets?
NEGATIVE, ONCE THE NEW PROCESS IS IN PLACE, THERE WILL NO LONGER BE "STUDENT PACKETS."

Will students have access to them? N/A

Will the packets even exist?
NO, PACKETS WILL BE A THING OF THE PAST.

The Next question is about the Program.

What exactly will be a part of the online program?
MOST OF THE ITEMS THAT CAN BE COVERED IN AN ELEARNING ENVIRONMENT. SAFETY RULES, PARTS, NOMENCLATURE, ACTIONS, ETC... SOME OF THE ITEMS WILL ALSO STATE MUST BE REVIEWED AND COMPLETED WITH YOUR INSTRUCTOR, SUCH AS LOADING, UNLOADING. THOUGH THERE WILL BE PORTIONS THAT COVER THESE THINGS, THEY WILL NEED TO BE VALIDATED WITH AN INSTRUCTOR USING A GUN.
What will the Instructors have left to teach? HANDLING, LOADING, UNLOADING, REINFORCING FUNDAMENTALS AND LOTS OF MARKSMANSHIP AND RANGE TIME. INSTRUCTORS WILL NEED TO VALIDATE THE STUDENTS LEARN HOW TO OPERATE AND USE THE GUN, AS WELL AS SHOOT TO A SPECIFIC SKILL LEVEL OR BETTER.

Will the students have to pay a seperate fee to take the online program?
YES, BUT THE FEE HAS NOT YET BEEN DETERMINED.

Will the Instructor issue the certificate at the completion of the class, or will the certificate be online?
THE INSTRUCTOR WILL AUTHORIZE THE CERTIFICATE BY COMPLETING THE REPORT, AS THEY DO NOW. IF THE INSTRUCTOR RECOMMENDS THE STUDENT, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO LOG BACK INTO THE LEARNING MANAGEMENT SYSTEM AND PRINT A CERTIFICATE. THE CERTIFICATE WILL HAVE THE INSTRUCTORS ID.

Will the Instructor administer the Testing portion of the class?
NEGATIVE. THE TESTING WILL BE PART OF THE ELEARNING PORTION. THE INSTRUCTOR WILL BE THE FINAL SAY, AFTER THEY HAVE COMPLETED ALL THE LEARNING OBJECTIVES, WHICH WILL INCLUDE SAFE HANDLING, LOADING AND UNLOADING, FUNDAMENTALS, AND MARKSMANSHIP. MOST IMPORTANTLY, ATTITUDE.
Sincerely
John Howard
National Manager
NRA Training Departmen
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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:20 pm
Very interesting. Which Instructor group is this because I must not be a member of that one? I'm a member of one, but obviously not the correct one.

It kind of hits my suspicions all along. Basically one is going to either need to be OPOTA certified or create their own class from scratch. I personally can't see anyone wanting to teach an NRA based class at all anymore in Ohio. Unfortunately I see this hurting some people that think they can do online then finish up in a class and not realize how long they will have to spend in class and think their time at home would count.
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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:29 pm
JediSkip here is the group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/64189079588/

One of the admins is Jeff Coleman, he is in OH near Dayton. When you request entry, go ahead and give your NRA/Instructor #, it's a closed group.

I agree with you about the NRA classes in Ohio, why would anyone take one, then have to go to 12 or maybe 8 hours in a classroom? Looks like we might get the 8 hr bill passed. I was hoping for 4...or none.

I got my certification in 2013. I am not a full time instructor or anything but once blended learning starts, I will be using my own course based on the NRA course and issuing my own certificates instead of the NRA certificate.

IMO, what the state requires is basically a safety course. If the law wants to require a course, it should just require NRA Basic Pistol in whatever form that takes and call it a day. Combined with read the AG law booklet. 12 hours is one of two things. Either not enough for a beginner or absolutely ridiculous for those who were and are advanced handgunners before OH CHL in 2004.
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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:00 am
Well that stinks for the people who invested in packets, I have quite a few :-(.

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:39 am
willbird wrote:
Well that stinks for the people who invested in packets, I have quite a few :-(.

I would just continue to teach the basic pistol course as you have in the past until the packets are used up. Nothing says you can't do this.
The certificate may not be valid by NRA standards but who cares if it is being used to apply for CHL.
Myself I am going to continue to use the basic pistol power point since it is a good resource, but now I feel free to modify it as much as I want since I will issue a certificate of my own design.

As for blended training I will be reluctant to sign off stating the student has completed required curriculum since I have no way of knowing if the person had their little brother complete it in their name.

Former Navy and ANG
CCW holder/Instructor
NRA Basic pistol instructor
Range Safety Officer
Personal Protection inside and outside the home instructor
Advanced pistol instructor
Defensive pistol instructor
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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:27 am
gunsandstuff wrote:
willbird wrote:
Well that stinks for the people who invested in packets, I have quite a few :-(.

I would just continue to teach the basic pistol course as you have in the past until the packets are used up. Nothing says you can't do this.
The certificate may not be valid by NRA standards but who cares if it is being used to apply for CHL.
Myself I am going to continue to use the basic pistol power point since it is a good resource, but now I feel free to modify it as much as I want since I will issue a certificate of my own design.

As for blended training I will be reluctant to sign off stating the student has completed required curriculum since I have no way of knowing if the person had their little brother complete it in their name.


I agree with what you are saying, BUT as I understood it the Sheriffs where your students may apply might want to see a class curriculum ?? Most are used to seeing a Basic Pistol certificate ??

Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:57 am
willbird wrote:
gunsandstuff wrote:
willbird wrote:
Well that stinks for the people who invested in packets, I have quite a few :-(.

I would just continue to teach the basic pistol course as you have in the past until the packets are used up. Nothing says you can't do this.
The certificate may not be valid by NRA standards but who cares if it is being used to apply for CHL.
Myself I am going to continue to use the basic pistol power point since it is a good resource, but now I feel free to modify it as much as I want since I will issue a certificate of my own design.

As for blended training I will be reluctant to sign off stating the student has completed required curriculum since I have no way of knowing if the person had their little brother complete it in their name.


I agree with what you are saying, BUT as I understood it the Sheriffs where your students may apply might want to see a class curriculum ?? Most are used to seeing a Basic Pistol certificate ??

Bill

As long as the certificate states training covered what the Law requires they should not have any problems with the certificate.
As far as I see it that IS the curriculum.
I do add in that verbiage that the course includes the NRA basic pistol curriculum even though that is not required.
Maybe the sheriff needs to be reminded of that.

Former Navy and ANG
CCW holder/Instructor
NRA Basic pistol instructor
Range Safety Officer
Personal Protection inside and outside the home instructor
Advanced pistol instructor
Defensive pistol instructor
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Post subject: Re: Impact of new NRA tng on Ohio CCW class
Post Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:07 am
gunsandstuff wrote:
willbird wrote:
gunsandstuff wrote:
willbird wrote:
Well that stinks for the people who invested in packets, I have quite a few :-(.

I would just continue to teach the basic pistol course as you have in the past until the packets are used up. Nothing says you can't do this.
The certificate may not be valid by NRA standards but who cares if it is being used to apply for CHL.
Myself I am going to continue to use the basic pistol power point since it is a good resource, but now I feel free to modify it as much as I want since I will issue a certificate of my own design.

As for blended training I will be reluctant to sign off stating the student has completed required curriculum since I have no way of knowing if the person had their little brother complete it in their name.


I agree with what you are saying, BUT as I understood it the Sheriffs where your students may apply might want to see a class curriculum ?? Most are used to seeing a Basic Pistol certificate ??

Bill

As long as the certificate states training covered what the Law requires they should not have any problems with the certificate.
As far as I see it that IS the curriculum.
I do add in that verbiage that the course includes the NRA basic pistol curriculum even though that is not required.
Maybe the sheriff needs to be reminded of that.


But again, IMHO it might be best to get all that cleared up before students go in to apply :-), it would not be fun to waste an appointment on their part :-). I know some Instructors have spoken of doing exactly this already, so their experiences have some value :-).

Each Sheriff has their own eccentricities IMHO, the done where I applied has the impression that the picture MUST be a passport photo...we all know that is not true, but it was easier to go to Rite Aid and get passport photo's which we have used for application and 2 renewals, and an FFL application and renewal than it was to get into a controversy with a Sgt who was "sure of himself".

Picking your battles and all of that jazz :-).

If I were to start my own curriculum I'd submit it to every adjacent county and mine for approval BEFORE I ever sent a student over there to apply, people sometimes have to take time off work to apply depending on how flexible the office is, and if they deny then it will be a major PITA to unravel that, again IMHO. Easier to grease the skids FIRST :-).



Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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