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Post subject: CCW Instructor Materials & NRA
Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:16 pm
I am a CCW instructor and I am certified by the NRA. I am trying to track down some information that seems to be creating a conflict. I am already getting a variety of opinions from other instructors which is contributing to the confusion.

Here are the key issues regarding my question...

1. Ohio Law says you must have an 8 hour class with 2 of those 8 on the range.

2. The Law states this course must be taught under the auspices of a National Advocacy Group.

3. The NRA would qualify for number 2

4. The NRA currently doesn't offer any courses that are 8 hours long with 2 on the range. All of them are longer.

5. The NRA says you CAN NOT teach one of their courses in a condensed manner. If you do you risk losing your teaching credentials. So you couldn't teach Personal Protection in the Home for example in 6 hours and pick and choose what content to cover.


So my question is what are other instructors offering that meets this 6 hours in the classroom and 2 on the range?

I could make up my own curriculum that covers what the AG says needs to be covered, but I am not sure if that is acceptable under the law or if it is "under the auspices of a National advocacy group" since it technically wouldn't be one of their courses.

Since the NRA doesn't offer the basic pistol class accept in the eLearning format and you can't buy packets any longer I either have to send people through the eLearning class at $60 bucks each or give another class like Personal Protection in the Home, which is 12 hours, PLUS I would still need the 2 hours on the range for a total of 14 hours, which nobody is going to take from me.

If anyone can give me some direction on what I should be doing here I would really appreciate it.

Fortune Hunter

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
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Post subject: Re: CCW Instructor Materials & NRA
Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:04 am
My understanding is that as an NRA-certified instructor, you can make your own 6 hour+ classroom curriculum and 2-hour+ range qualification and that is acceptable under Ohio law for a concealed carry class. This is what most instructors I know of are moving to since the NRA made a mess out of the basic pistol class.

Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
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Post subject: Re: CCW Instructor Materials & NRA
Post Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:31 pm
That is my understanding as well, but when I a called the Attorney General's office for an opinion on this they wouldn't give me a straight answer. They said it is up to the local Sheriff what curriculum they would accept.

I pointed out that the requirements were spelled out in Ohio Law so it shouldn't have anything to do with the Sheriff, but he seemed to keep coming back to that answer. He said the Sheriff's are the ones to enforce all CCW related items.

What a pain in the a**!

Fortune Hunter

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
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Post subject: Re: CCW Instructor Materials & NRA
Post Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:59 pm
With the risk of sounding stupid, I really think the NRA just made things so much more difficult for NRA Instructors. With the blended learning how has anyone adjusted their fees since you only have the student technically for the on hands training (Most important) for the couple of hours at the range? There really is not much information being passed to small instructors like myself, which leaves much to be interpreted by what I am reading... Anyone have better information in regards to the Blended learning in regards to Ohio?

Thanks in advance.
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Post subject: Re: CCW Instructor Materials & NRA
Post Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:48 pm
wpc0908:

Welcome Aboard!

(You joined in February 2015 and haven't said a word since then. You may be eligible for a serious attitude adjustment :D....)

(Seriously, Welcome Aboard!)

There's a sticky at http://forums.buckeyefirearms.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10097 that may be worth a read, but it's not mandatory, and may be sleep inducing.

We have discussed your question before. I'm not an instructor, but I tend to read most of the stuff posted here. You're still going to have to handle the range time and should have some idea of what that's going to cost you (and be reflected in your rates), and that also should include some classroom time for both the firearms training (really, mostly testing) aspects, and, IMHO, some classroom time on specific Ohio issues based on the current law.

That includes, I think, current zingers in the law, and the rather basic "if the sign says 'unless authorized', the law says 'but not us'".... IMHO, this should also include some shoot/no-shoot time, and some coverage of "when" to shoot, or even when to unholster. I've not seen the NRA online course, but you've still got to deal with OH-related peculiarities in that stuff, too.

IMHO, you're going to have to cover all of this, to some degree. Instructors around here tend to shy away from "legal advice", but it's a dis-service to the students to presume that they can find this stuff themselves, or will realize what's actually in there without help.

The good news may be that the "this is a gun" (remember those pictures of a semi-auto and a revolver with the parts labeled?) portion of the course need not be part of the class, and you'll have more time to talk about the other stuff.

Hopefully, our gang will have better suggestions.

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

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Post subject: Re: CCW Instructor Materials & NRA
Post Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:23 pm
Thank you and I am glad to be here. I have actually been reading the forums for a bit longer than I have been a member but finally decided to join. I tend to keep to myself until I really need to get some answers. Funny you mention the "Law" portion, I tend to discuss this in my classes but make the statement "I am not a lawyer and for further clarification I suggest that you seek a licensed professional if you would like a more definitive answer." Although, since I am a rather personal instructor versus a group of instructors I tend to teach classes to mostly people I know or are friends or family of someone I know, so I tend to weed out some of the individuals that are in the larger group classes, thank goodness for that. I will read the link you provided and hopefully garner some knowledge.
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Post subject: Re: CCW Instructor Materials & NRA
Post Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:18 pm
WPC, welcome.
I teach what is required by the Attny General as far as pistol parts, safe storage of ammo and guns etc. Also teach the law reading AG's pamphlet and ORC 2923. My material I use is from Basic Pistol Power Point, I pick and choose. I do not spend any time on cleaning/NRA commercials, and very little time on shooting stances. No time on Bullseye shooting either. The test I give closely resembles the Basic Pistol test.
I have not nor will I do any Blended learning students that call me just for range time.
Since folks come to get a certificate for a CHL, I try to teach some practical defensive shooting. If I have a class full of newbees, I stick to the basics and offer for them to come back for some free range instruction of a more advanced nature.
I think the NRA has shot themselves in the foot as far as the Blended learning. I used to buy the Basic Pistol Packets to give out so the students had something to take home but I just keep the extra $15 now.
All students in a general class have different skill levels and you have to teach to the lowest level and try to keep it interesting enough so the more advanced students don't go to sleep.
As an instructor I am not sure cutting the class down to 8 hrs is a good idea for some.
Just my 2 cents worth

When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace
NRA Certified Instructor,Pistol, Personal Protection in the Home
NRA Life member.
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Post subject: Re: CCW Instructor Materials & NRA
Post Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:22 pm
Thanks for the reply.. I have always followed the Basic pistol power point and I also pick and choose what is more relevant for my class. I spend as much time as needed to insure "I" feel comfortable with their abilities before they get a certificate from me. I also purchased the packets and submitted the course reports but now I feel like I am a rogue instructor. I am not into the blended learning and have only been contacted once which I quickly discouraged them to select me, I just didn't get that warm fuzzy feeling... I too offer any student who wants to go shooting at the range to have some follow up or just more instruction for free all the time.
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Post subject: Re: CCW Instructor Materials & NRA
Post Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:55 am
Don't feel like you are alone - most of us are dealing with the same thing, and I don't know of any NRA certified instructors who are using the NRA blended program. Most have come up with their own curriculum or are moving to USCCA (if they have the time and money to re-certify through them) - or, are simply not teaching classes anymore.

Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
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Post subject: Re: CCW Instructor Materials & NRA
Post Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:09 pm
If you haven't looked the the United States Conceal Carry program (USCCA), drop me a PM and go to their website. We are being approved specifically by many counties in Ohio and are in process of working on the rest. The program does fill the needs for the Ohio CHL instructor.
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