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Post subject: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:45 pm
Can I carry at the school if i dont get on the bus?
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:50 pm
You are asking two question?

Is a bus stop a school zone? No, as long as it is not on school property.

Can I carry at the school if i don't get on the bus? No.

Federal law "school zone" means within 1,000 feet of a school.
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:50 pm
For the purposes of Ohio law:

From ORC 2909.01 (C)
Quote:
(1) "School safety zone" consists of a school, school building, school premises, school activity, and school bus.

(2) "School," "school building," and "school premises" have the same meanings as in section 2925.01 of the Revised Code.

(3) "School activity" means any activity held under the auspices of a board of education of a city, local, exempted village, joint vocational, or cooperative education school district; a governing authority of a community school established under Chapter 3314. of the Revised Code; a governing board of an educational service center, or the governing body of a school for which the state board of education prescribes minimum standards under section 3301.07 of the Revised Code.

(4) "School bus" has the same meaning as in section 4511.01 of the Revised Code.


Continuing down the rabbit hole, ORC 2925.01 defines "School premises"
Quote:
(R) "School premises" means either of the following:

(1) The parcel of real property on which any school is situated, whether or not any instruction, extracurricular activities, or training provided by the school is being conducted on the premises at the time a criminal offense is committed;

(2) Any other parcel of real property that is owned or leased by a board of education of a school, the governing authority of a community school established under Chapter 3314. of the Revised Code, or the governing body of a nonpublic school for which the state board of education prescribes minimum standards under section 3301.07 of the Revised Code and on which some of the instruction, extracurricular activities, or training of the school is conducted, whether or not any instruction, extracurricular activities, or training provided by the school is being conducted on the parcel of real property at the time a criminal offense is committed.

(S) "School building" means any building in which any of the instruction, extracurricular activities, or training provided by a school is conducted, whether or not any instruction, extracurricular activities, or training provided by the school is being conducted in the school building at the time a criminal offense is committed.


I don't see the school bus stop listed, but I'm not sure if "School activity" covers the school bus stop while students are present.

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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:44 pm
Need to read ORC 2923.122, 2923.126 and 2923.161
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122v1
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126v1
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.161v1

Most deal with "school safety zone."
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:46 pm
Sorry for the confusion. I know I cannot carry at a school but my question was can I carry at my daughter's bus stop in front of our house? I will take a look at the links provided. JustaShooter I agree - I'm concerned that a bus stop could constitute a school activity.
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:45 am
bobcat1506 wrote:
Sorry for the confusion. I know I cannot carry at a school but my question was can I carry at my daughter's bus stop in front of our house? I will take a look at the links provided. JustaShooter I agree - I'm concerned that a bus stop could constitute a school activity.

"School activity" falls under ORC 3301.07 involving "extracurricular athletics, and other extracurricular activities."

Standing in front of your house watching your child get on the bus cannot be classified as "extracurricular athletics, and other extracurricular activities."
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:19 am
color of law wrote:
Need to read ORC 2923.122, 2923.126 and 2923.161
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122v1
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126v1
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.161v1

Most deal with "school safety zone."


True, but a School Activity is a part of a School Safety Zone. Now, how far have schools stressed that school activity part? I know I've read of students disciplined by the school for issues that occur at school bus stops. So to me for them to discipline there, they most likely consider it a school activity (the activity of waiting for the bus.)

It's one I do not believe has ever been tried in court.

color of law wrote:
bobcat1506 wrote:
Sorry for the confusion. I know I cannot carry at a school but my question was can I carry at my daughter's bus stop in front of our house? I will take a look at the links provided. JustaShooter I agree - I'm concerned that a bus stop could constitute a school activity.

"School activity" falls under ORC 3301.07 involving "extracurricular athletics, and other extracurricular activities."

Standing in front of your house watching your child get on the bus cannot be classified as "extracurricular athletics, and other extracurricular activities."


I don't see how the extracurricular active part of 3301.07 comes in to play. The way I read...

(3) "School activity" means any activity held under the auspices of a board of education of a city, local, exempted village, joint vocational, or cooperative education school district; a governing authority of a community school established under Chapter 3314. of the Revised Code; a governing board of an educational service center, or the governing body of a school for which the state board of education prescribes minimum standards under section 3301.07 of the Revised Code.

I see the "governing body" has to abide by 3301.07. If the school district doesn't follow the minimum standards set by the state board, they aren't considered a board of eduction.
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:49 am
JediSkipdogg wrote:
color of law wrote:
Need to read ORC 2923.122, 2923.126 and 2923.161
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122v1
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126v1
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.161v1

Most deal with "school safety zone."


True, but a School Activity is a part of a School Safety Zone. Now, how far have schools stressed that school activity part? I know I've read of students disciplined by the school for issues that occur at school bus stops. So to me for them to discipline there, they most likely consider it a school activity (the activity of waiting for the bus.)

It's one I do not believe has ever been tried in court.

color of law wrote:
bobcat1506 wrote:
Sorry for the confusion. I know I cannot carry at a school but my question was can I carry at my daughter's bus stop in front of our house? I will take a look at the links provided. JustaShooter I agree - I'm concerned that a bus stop could constitute a school activity.

"School activity" falls under ORC 3301.07 involving "extracurricular athletics, and other extracurricular activities."

Standing in front of your house watching your child get on the bus cannot be classified as "extracurricular athletics, and other extracurricular activities."


I don't see how the extracurricular active part of 3301.07 comes in to play. The way I read...

(3) "School activity" means any activity held under the auspices of a board of education of a city, local, exempted village, joint vocational, or cooperative education school district; a governing authority of a community school established under Chapter 3314. of the Revised Code; a governing board of an educational service center, or the governing body of a school for which the state board of education prescribes minimum standards under section 3301.07 of the Revised Code.

I see the "governing body" has to abide by 3301.07. If the school district doesn't follow the minimum standards set by the state board, they aren't considered a board of eduction.
"So to me for them to discipline there, they most likely consider it a school activity (the activity of waiting for the bus.)" Well your free to believe whatever you want, but that does not even come close what a school activity is as referenced in ORC 3301.07. And, case law does not even supports such stretch of the imagination. Only one case exists dealing with a "school activity" and a "school bus," that happening on the "school premises."

As to your second personal thought, did you even read ORC 3301.07?. You are way far afield. JMHO
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:07 pm
color of law wrote:
As to your second personal thought, did you even read ORC 3301.07?. You are way far afield. JMHO


Yes I did, and 3301.07 refers to "The STATE Board of Education." It even repeats that numerous times that it applies to the STATE BOE. It outlines what the STATE BOE must do and what BOEs under it must do for them. So not sure how 3301.07 applies at all in reference to a school safety zone.

Heck, even if you go with your thought on it applying, the only time activities are even mentioned is in financial reporting.
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:09 pm
JediSkipdogg wrote:
color of law wrote:
As to your second personal thought, did you even read ORC 3301.07?. You are way far afield. JMHO


Yes I did, and 3301.07 refers to "The STATE Board of Education." It even repeats that numerous times that it applies to the STATE BOE. It outlines what the STATE BOE must do and what BOEs under it must do for them. So not sure how 3301.07 applies at all in reference to a school safety zone.

Heck, even if you go with your thought on it applying, the only time activities are even mentioned is in financial reporting.

Above you quoted 2901.01(C)(3) including underlining.
Quote:
(3) "School activity" means any activity held under the auspices of a board of education of a city, local, exempted village, joint vocational, or cooperative education school district; a governing authority of a community school established under Chapter 3314. of the Revised Code; a governing board of an educational service center, or the governing body of a school for which the state board of education prescribes minimum standards under section 3301.07 of the Revised Code.
ORC 3301.07 refers to extracurricular activities. An extracurricular activity can be almost anything that isn’t required for high school credit. And, a “school activity” is defined as any activity held under the auspices of a board of education. I cannot believe that you really believe that a child standing at the end of their driveway with their parent waiting for the school bus is actually an activity held under the auspices of a board of education.
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:50 am
COL:

In ancient times, the local School prescribed which driveway we were to stand at the end of....

It was a bit of a walk, but not too terrible.

The bus driver was a nice guy, and since our house was located at the end of the street, with a circle that allowed him to turn the bus around, if one of us managed to raise the garage door, he'd stop and wait for us at the end of our drive. If the door didn't go up, or he didn't notice it, he wouldn't wait.

(We'd saddle up the dinosaur and....)

Seriously, with the exception of the rather poorly written exemption for picking up or dropping off the kids (but not a spouse!), you can't be armed (even if it's locked in the car) on school property or at school activities, period. (I'm sure there's another exception or two if the guys think about it. It's 0244 and my brain's waiting for the caffeine in a glass of iced tea to kick in.)

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:43 am
color of law wrote:
I cannot believe that you really believe that a child standing at the end of their driveway with their parent waiting for the school bus is actually an activity held under the auspices of a board of education.



I would think telling me they will only pick my child up and drop the child off at the end of my driveway is a direction of the bus facility which is overseen by the board of education. They choose the time and location, not I, and say nowhere else is a pickup/drop off allowed.

When I was in school (I lived in a subdivision) it was at the end of our street at an intersection. So again, they chose the time and location which to me means that the activity of picking up and dropping off a child is held under the auspices of the board of education. And the state has specifically granted busses certain rights when that little sign comes out at that location so I would venture the state thinks it's an activity under the BOE control.

Also, and not that it directly applies to Ohio, many states spell out "bus stop" as a school safety zone. I would think it would be a long battle to say a school bus stop is not a school safety zone. Could one win? Possibly.
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:48 am
SMMAssociates wrote:
Seriously, with the exception of the rather poorly written exemption for picking up or dropping off the kids (but not a spouse!), you can't be armed (even if it's locked in the car) on school property or at school activities, period. (I'm sure there's another exception or two if the guys think about it. It's 0244 and my brain's waiting for the caffeine in a glass of iced tea to kick in.)


That all changed March of last year. If you have a CHL, you can now have your handgun in your vehicle on school grounds for any reason, and as long as it stays in the vehicle and you lock the vehicle if you exit the vehicle, you can leave it there to attend school functions, etc.

From ORC 2923.122 (D)
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122v1

Quote:
(4) This section does not apply to a person who conveys or attempts to convey a handgun into, or possesses a handgun in, a school safety zone if at the time of that conveyance, attempted conveyance, or possession of the handgun all of the following apply:

(a) The person is carrying a valid concealed handgun license or the person is an active duty member of the armed forces of the United States and is carrying a valid military identification card and documentation of successful completion of firearms training that meets or exceeds the training requirements described in division (G)(1) of section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

(b) The person leaves the handgun in a motor vehicle .

(c) The handgun does not leave the motor vehicle.

(d) If the person exits the motor vehicle, the person locks the motor vehicle.

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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:17 pm
JediSkipdogg wrote:
color of law wrote:
I cannot believe that you really believe that a child standing at the end of their driveway with their parent waiting for the school bus is actually an activity held under the auspices of a board of education.



I would think telling me they will only pick my child up and drop the child off at the end of my driveway is a direction of the bus facility which is overseen by the board of education. They choose the time and location, not I, and say nowhere else is a pickup/drop off allowed.

When I was in school (I lived in a subdivision) it was at the end of our street at an intersection. So again, they chose the time and location which to me means that the activity of picking up and dropping off a child is held under the auspices of the board of education. And the state has specifically granted busses certain rights when that little sign comes out at that location so I would venture the state thinks it's an activity under the BOE control.

Also, and not that it directly applies to Ohio, many states spell out "bus stop" as a school safety zone. I would think it would be a long battle to say a school bus stop is not a school safety zone. Could one win? Possibly.


That is all you ever do; "I would think..." You burn-up a lot of time telling everybody what you think and produce no law to support your obtuse thinking. Do you have a statute or court case that supports your bloviating. If you had something legally supporting your position you would have posted it, but you haven't.

Does this sound familiar?
Quote:
The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.


I think your way of thinking may be more to the liking to those over at OFCC. It doesn't work so well out here in the real world.
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Post subject: Re: Is a bus stop a school zone?
Post Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:03 pm
If "ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a very merry Christmas." But we live in a real world. I see little value in hypothetical situations such as this, especially if one isn't getting on a bus operated or owned by the school district, a leased vehicle used to transport students as part of a school-sponsored activity, or if the gun carrying individual isn't going onto school property.

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Last edited by Uncle Duke on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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