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Post subject: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:12 am
I had a CCW class a couple weeks ago and heard something interesting. One of my students called the Knox County Sheriff's office to ask about the application process prior to taking my class. He brought his son and a friend with him, one was active Military and the other had been discharged honorably within the past 2 years. His first question to the deputy answering the phone was "Do these 2 soldiers need to take a safety course". The answer given was yes they do- which is incorrect. I thanked the 2 for their service and told them they were not required to take the class but were more than welcome to stay. They did stay and enjoyed themselves and even learned a little. His next question when calling was "how long does it take to get your CHL once the application is dropped off. The deputy's answer was "it will take 45 days". When asked, "45 days? I thought that was the deadline for a decision" the deputy said again, "it will take 45 days".

I live and teach in Knox County but have heard nothing but bad things. When I got my CHL I lived in Franklin County but went to the Delaware Sheriff's Department. The lady who processed my application warned me that since one of my prior addresses were in Knox County it may take awhile for them to get back with Delaware. I still got my CHL 3 days later. Since then, I have told my students go where you want but I would say Delaware is your best bet. I have gotten thank you emails about that advice. One student said he dropped his app off on a Thursday and they called him Monday to pick up his CHL. Another student decided to go to Knox anyway and then called me 30 days later to ask why it might be taking so long... He got it a week after that.

Where'd you go? How long did it take?

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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:16 am
warren county was like a week, ...but that was a year ago, don't know what it is now..

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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:46 pm
Lake County( NE Ohio) took 7 days in 2005 for my wife and only 3 days in 2009 for her renewal.. Always best to call local office of county you plan to apply in as they do vary in some ways although they shouldn't if they follow the law.. Mis-information at their end does happen often unfortunately.. :?

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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:35 pm
Richland County took two days (Jan, 2010).
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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:42 pm
My wife and I got ours in Summit county about a year ago. It took 15 days at that time, My dad dropped off his application on Dec. 23 and got his license Jan. 8.

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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:01 pm
Is this the way the Knox County Sheriff handles all CHL stuff? What's up with that? He a Democrap or something? Who exactly is David B. Barber, other than someone who looks like Mike DeWine from 25 years ago?

Image

This is a good example of why I am not a big believer in sheriffs as the saviors of American democracy as some are. Who's the sheriff, or former sheriff, who has written a book calling sheriffs the backbone of the country and preservers of liberty? Can't think of his name at the moment, but he's well known in right-wing circles.

Sure, they can be if they're good conservatives who believe in the rule of law and the Constitution, but what if they're not? What if they're just stupid political hacks? What if they're like former Cuyahoga County Sheriff Gerald McFool who was not only a corrupt drunk, but who also ignored any law he didn't like. Concealed carry supporters had to bring a mandamus action against him to force him to issue CHLs. Even then he made it as difficult as possible.

Just because sheriffs are elected doesn't automatically make them better than your standard issue civil service cops. By definition a sheriff is a politician. That ain't necessarily a good thing.
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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:03 pm
farmermike wrote:
Who exactly is David B. Barber, other than someone who looks like Mike DeWine from 25 years ago?[
Image

:lol: i wonder if he's a member here...

farmermike wrote:
This is a good example of why I am not a big believer in sheriffs as the saviors of American democracy as some are. Who's the sheriff, or former sheriff, who has written a book calling sheriffs the backbone of the country and preservers of liberty? Can't think of his name at the moment, but he's well known in right-wing circles.


you're thinking of Richard Mack, AZ sheriff back during the Clintoon presidency... he beat the .gov for rebuking the brady law- all the way to the supreme court - and won! his book is "Sheriff - America's Last Hope", ...I want to buy it and read it..

farmermike wrote:
Just because sheriffs are elected doesn't automatically make them better than your standard issue civil service cops. By definition a sheriff is a politician. That ain't necessarily a good thing.

yeah, but how's this different from any other elected position... the good thing about the sheriff is they have broad powers to uphold the law and constitution w/in the county, and they are beholden to the residents thereof... police chiefs are not elected, and tend to be political hacks and minions of local mayors...

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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:19 pm
WileyCoyote wrote:
the good thing about the sheriff is they have broad powers to uphold the law and constitution w/in the county, and they are beholden to the residents thereof...


But what if they decide they get to decide which laws to uphold? Do you think there's even a remote chance Cuyahoga County will ever elect a sheriff who's not a Democrap political hack who will take the law in his own hands? Not likely.

At least with an appointed chief of police you can fire him/her at any time. You might have to wait four years to get rid of a corrupt sheriff, or in the case of Cuyahoga County, a lifetime.

Sheriff Mack is certainly correct if the sheriff happens to be a guy like him. But I'll bet you 50 cents you could find at least a dozen current sheriffs in Ohio who are corrupt political hacks who only uphold laws they agree with. You might could find more than a dozen.

I only know one sheriff personally--Bob Bratton in Ottawa County. I can personally attest to his honesty because I've known him for 25 years. I don't want to go into the details of how I know Bobby's an honest cop, but he truly is. Even though he's a Democrat, I don't hold that against him.

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Now, is that an honest face or what? Bobby has more chins than a Chinese phonebook these days, but he's as honest as the day is long.
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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:28 pm
farmermike wrote:
WileyCoyote wrote:
the good thing about the sheriff is they have broad powers to uphold the law and constitution w/in the county, and they are beholden to the residents thereof...


But what if they decide they get to decide which laws to uphold? Do you think there's even a remote chance Cuyahoga County will ever elect a sheriff who's not a Democrap political hack who will take the law in his own hands? Not likely.

At least with an appointed chief of police you can fire him/her at any time. You might have to wait four years to get rid of a corrupt sheriff, or in the case of Cuyahoga County, a lifetime.

remember police chiefs are hired by mayors, right? ... so it's the same deal, only in this situation it's the mayor who is directly elected... does Mayors Against Illegal Guns ring a bell? how are you going to fire a police chief, if it's a position appointed by the mayor.. so then, your beef is with the mayor, back to square one... i guess i'm missing your logic here...

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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:54 pm
WileyCoyote wrote:
i guess i'm missing your logic here...


My only point is just because sheriffs are elected by the people they aren't automatically good guys. A lot of them are just corrupt political hacks run by political machines who enforce the laws they see fit to enforce. The mere fact they're elected does not ipso facto make them honest upholders of the law and the Constitution. That's all I'm really saying.

And they don't always act in the people's interests. We'll never have a state police force in Ohio so long as the Buckeye Sheriff's Association is around. That's strictly politics, not public safety. From a public policy point of view you cannot make a logical, compelling case for the Highway Patrol not having general state police powers. In many counties they outnumber the sheriff's deputies on the road by a wide margin. I don't know about your county, but in Lorain County there are only 2 deputies on the road at any time. That's it. They've laid all the other road deputies off because the Democrap county commissioners could screw up a wet dream.

Is two deputies adequate to cover 18 townships spread across 495 square miles? Not hardly. People come out of their houses and stare when they see a sheriff's department car go by. I exaggerate, of course, but it's a rare thing to see one. Yet I see OSP cars go by every day because I live next to a state highway. But they're not allowed by law to provide general police protection. Why? Politics. The Buckeye Sheriff's Association doesn't want anyone encroaching on their turf. They're not looking out for the people, they're looking out for themselves and their little political fiefdoms. That's just wrong, very, very wrong.
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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:38 pm
farmermike wrote:
WileyCoyote wrote:
i guess i'm missing your logic here...


My only point is just because sheriffs are elected by the people they aren't automatically good guys. A lot of them are just corrupt political hacks run by political machines who enforce the laws they see fit to enforce. The mere fact they're elected does not ipso facto make them honest upholders of the law and the Constitution. That's all I'm really saying.

And they don't always act in the people's interests. We'll never have a state police force in Ohio so long as the Buckeye Sheriff's Association is around. That's strictly politics, not public safety. From a public policy point of view you cannot make a logical, compelling case for the Highway Patrol not having general state police powers. In many counties they outnumber the sheriff's deputies on the road by a wide margin. I don't know about your county, but in Lorain County there are only 2 deputies on the road at any time. That's it. They've laid all the other road deputies off because the Democrap county commissioners could screw up a wet dream.

Is two deputies adequate to cover 18 townships spread across 495 square miles? Not hardly. People come out of their houses and stare when they see a sheriff's department car go by. I exaggerate, of course, but it's a rare thing to see one. Yet I see OSP cars go by every day because I live next to a state highway. But they're not allowed by law to provide general police protection. Why? Politics. The Buckeye Sheriff's Association doesn't want anyone encroaching on their turf. They're not looking out for the people, they're looking out for themselves and their little political fiefdoms. That's just wrong, very, very wrong.

i still don't get it... what you are advocating goes against the notion of a "republic"... why would i want a state police force any more than hussein's civilian national police force wet dream? sounds authoritarion to me... the notion of a republic is to have divided gov't w/ checks/balances, and the sheriff and county government are a big component to making this work... sure elected officials are only "good" so long as "we the people" do our job and elect competent ones... i don't see how you can get any better than this?.. i prefer divided gov't w/ checks/balances - so i'm w/ Richard Mack, unless you convince me otherwise.. :?

anyway, we've probably hijacked this thread.. :oops:

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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:41 pm
You know it only took one lawsuit against Franklin County about issuing temporary licences, and now they're the fastest and most efficient in the state. They've gotten some people's back the same day! Most by the next day.

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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:33 am
farmermike wrote:
WileyCoyote wrote:
i guess i'm missing your logic here...


And they don't always act in the people's interests. We'll never have a state police force in Ohio so long as the Buckeye Sheriff's Association is around. That's strictly politics, not public safety. From a public policy point of view you cannot make a logical, compelling case for the Highway Patrol not having general state police powers. In many counties they outnumber the sheriff's deputies on the road by a wide margin. I don't know about your county, but in Lorain County there are only 2 deputies on the road at any time. That's it. They've laid all the other road deputies off because the Democrap county commissioners could screw up a wet dream.


farmermike,

It is NOT just the Buckeye State Sheriff's Assn. there a good many (approaching to over half) that don"t want the OSHP to turn into the OSP.

Part of that is the way they have treated the citizens of Ohio over the years. Part of that is the stuff they have pulled over the years. And part of it is them pushing so hard to become the OSP that many people think if they want it that bad it should be denied to them!

I dealt with them when I worked for the state. They could NOT get any from the local post to do the work, they had to get them in from the next post up the road. They were too scared to do their job becasue they might meet us on the street later. You tend to get a little paranoid when you deal with them and they read you your rights just to take a statement from you, even if the statement just was to say that you were off work that shift and so had no idea what went on that day.

If I had a choice between protecting myself and having the OSHP to protect me, I would choose protect myself every time, I would not trust a trooper farther than I could throw one, and the nco's and officers I wouldn't even trust that far!

I can see NO BENEFIT at all to making the Ohio State Highway Patrol the Ohio State Police. The VERY LAST thing we need is another batch of clowns that think they are above the law, they are only tolerable now becasue of the way we keep them trimmed back!

Think about the poison pills the Highway Patrol put into the first CCW bill and then think what would have come out of their offices if they had been the State Police. NO THANK YOU!

Buckshot

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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:06 am
Buckshot wrote:
It is NOT just the Buckeye State Sheriff's Assn. there a good many (approaching to over half) that don"t want the OSHP to turn into the OSP.

Part of that is the way they have treated the citizens of Ohio over the years. Part of that is the stuff they have pulled over the years. And part of it is them pushing so hard to become the OSP that many people think if they want it that bad it should be denied to them!

I dealt with them when I worked for the state. They could NOT get any from the local post to do the work, they had to get them in from the next post up the road. They were too scared to do their job becasue they might meet us on the street later. You tend to get a little paranoid when you deal with them and they read you your rights just to take a statement from you, even if the statement just was to say that you were off work that shift and so had no idea what went on that day.

If I had a choice between protecting myself and having the OSHP to protect me, I would choose protect myself every time, I would not trust a trooper farther than I could throw one, and the nco's and officers I wouldn't even trust that far!

I can see NO BENEFIT at all to making the Ohio State Highway Patrol the Ohio State Police. The VERY LAST thing we need is another batch of clowns that think they are above the law, they are only tolerable now becasue of the way we keep them trimmed back!

Think about the poison pills the Highway Patrol put into the first CCW bill and then think what would have come out of their offices if they had been the State Police. NO THANK YOU!


I'm not from Ohio so I don't know what the OSP may have done in the past. I'm from PA, where the PSP is the most professional law enforcement body in the state. The PSP is run like the military--it's buildings aren't called posts, they're called barracks. They are very much a spit and polish outfit where rank and chain of command are supreme. They are much like the Marines in that they have a very proud history they try hard to uphold. Their crime lab is one of the best in the country and there have been very, very few scandals or outbreaks of corruption. They are the law in most of PA, where sheriffs are not law enforcement officers and in fact have no law enforcement authority.
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Post subject: Re: Share your County CHL experience
Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:25 am
WileyCoyote wrote:
i still don't get it... what you are advocating goes against the notion of a "republic"... why would i want a state police force any more than hussein's civilian national police force wet dream? sounds authoritarion to me... the notion of a republic is to have divided gov't w/ checks/balances, and the sheriff and county government are a big component to making this work... sure elected officials are only "good" so long as "we the people" do our job and elect competent ones... i don't see how you can get any better than this?.. i prefer divided gov't w/ checks/balances - so i'm w/ Richard Mack, unless you convince me otherwise.. :?

anyway, we've probably hijacked this thread.. :oops:


Just two more things to say then I'll let it be. By your logic, we should never trust our military because they're not elected. Since none of our police departments are elected, they're not to be trusted, either.

I also dispute your definition of "republic." A republic is defined as "a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them." There are plenty of republics in the world--the French Republic comes immediately to mind--which are unitary systems wherein the central government is all-powerful and there is little division of powers and certainly no check over the central government. Still meets the definition of a republic, however. You should more properly refer to the "American republic" to be precise.

Oh yeah, I actually have a third thing: you've obviously never lived in Cuyahoga County where the last sheriff--elected and re-elected for 32 years--was a drunken, crooked hack politician who only enforced the laws he thought should be enforced. He'd still be in office if not for the unelected state and Federal prosecutors who pretty much hounded him out. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03 ... tions.html

I'm afraid Richard Macks are probably the exception, not the rule.
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