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Post subject: Re: Why not Ohio??
Post Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:37 am
PX4_Storm wrote:
I've never heard that our Representative form of government had anything to do with distance. Even in those days they could travel the 13 original colonies/states in a reasonable time.

I've always understood that through divided representative government, it would be harder for the 51% to tyrannize the 49%. Especially the way it was originally written where the Senators were elected by the States and not the people so they would vote what's best for the state as opposed to being at the whim of public opinion.

I could be wrong . . .

I found a few quotes about what our Founding Fathers thought of Democracy, though:

Quote:
John Quincy Adams - “The experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived.”



Noah Webster - “In democracy … there are commonly tumults and disorders … Therefore a pure democracy is generally a very bad government. It is often the most tyrannical government on earth.”



James Madison - “Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”



John Adams - “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.”


px


The senators were actually "appointed" by the states, not necessarily elected. The 17th amendment was one of the worst things that ever happened to our system of government.

The reason we have a democratic republic was to try and create a timeless government by protecting our rights in order to avoid the tyranny of the majority, as James Madison put it... hence, the Bill of Rights.

...the right to keep and arm bears. :^b
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Post subject: Re: Why not Ohio??
Post Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 7:59 pm
PX4 Storm, if you run for office you have my vote!!!
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Post subject: Re: Why not Ohio??
Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 6:19 pm
Well, thank you but I don't think I'd go too far in politics!

I have a tendency to say what I think is true and then actually follow through! I'm sure I would make too many waves in the Republican party by actually pushing legislation that I said I support! I would put pro-2nd Amendment bills up and when the Republican party shelved it for two years with their fingers in the wind afraid to back what they say they are for, I'd call them on it and publicly ask why they have not acted?

I'm sure I'm wrong and the proper way to do things is to claim your for something, make a feeble attempt at looking like you're for it and then when it doesn't go anywhere claim it wasn't politically expedient! Tell your supporters you tried and call it a night.

That's not me, though! I'd push, I'd fight and I'd make a ruckus to get things done and if I lost in the end at least I'd know I honestly tried! I don't have the "finesse" to be a politician!

px

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
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Post subject: Re: Why not Ohio??
Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 12:09 am
pippin wrote:
The senators were actually "appointed" by the states, not necessarily elected. The 17th amendment was one of the worst things that ever happened to our system of government.

The reason we have a democratic republic was to try and create a timeless government by protecting our rights in order to avoid the tyranny of the majority, as James Madison put it... hence, the Bill of Rights.


I'm curious how you think it would be any better if the states appointed the elected vs the people electing them? I would imagine it would be the same as we have now.
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Post subject: Re: Why not Ohio??
Post Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 3:23 pm
I am Count Chocula.



PX4_Storm wrote:
On the internet, I keep seeing all these other State Legislatures passing pro-gun bills and yet in Ohio, silence! The other states are doing more in 2 months than Ohio will do in the next 2 years!

I keep wondering if Ohio Republicans are such pro-gun candidates, why do they need to be lobbied and sweet talked into getting a little bit of pro-gun legislation passed. Why do we have to wait for the lame duck session to get action?

As a Republican, I guarantee if I was a legislator, I would legislate some pro-gun bills without the need of the pro-gun lobbies pushing me every step of the way. I'd be passing pro-gun bills! I would be happy for the support of the pro-gun lobbies but I would not wait for them to push me into doing what I know is right!

I must admit, that I am jealous watching the other State Legislatures passing bills out in the open, not behind closed doors and in silence waiting for the lame duck session! It is really sad!

px



I can answer all of these questions.

Other states are getting things done by lobbying them, sweet talking them, and pushing them every step of the way.

Your legislators are working on the things that people are lobbying them for and pushing them every step of the way on.

You are not lobbying them, sweet talking them, and pushing them every step of the way. Instead, you are asking, "Why do I have to?"

Those are the answers you seek.

The Count.

The Count

Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
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Post subject: Re: Senate appointed v. elected
Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:43 pm
JediSkipdogg wrote:
pippin wrote:
The senators were actually "appointed" by the states, not necessarily elected. The 17th amendment was one of the worst things that ever happened to our system of government.


I'm curious how you think it would be any better if the states appointed the elected vs the people electing them? I would imagine it would be the same as we have now.

I'll be happy to take this one on. The Senate was originally designed to provide representation of the several States in Congress. The House provided representation for the people. The legislature and governor were to decide who was to represent the state as a whole in the Senate. It provided an additional level of insulation against the evils of mob rule (aka, democracy) and ensured the state government (as elected by the citizens of that state) had a voice in Federal issues.

The 17th Amendment changed that to a popular election of the voters. That then meant that each person was represented in the House by one person elected by the people who lived in their area of the state, and each state was represented by two people elected by a majority of votes from all voters in the entire state. That gave dense population areas a more powerful voice in the election of Senators than they had before the 17th Amendment was ratified.

If the original method of identifying US Senators had been in effect, it is very unlikely that the Clinton gun ban would ever have been passed. There is no possible way for Obamacare to have been passed - over 30 state legislatures immediately joined legal action to have it overturned; had the Senators been appointed by those legislatures, they would have voted as representatives of the States which opposed it.

It's unlikely that both the 16th and 17th Amendments will be amended out of the Constitution anytime soon, but that would go a long way toward restoring the Founders' original intent for how the Federal government was to work.

Mark Avery, Co-host
Shootin' from the Hip Radio Talk Show
Saturdays, 2:00-3:00 PM Eastern

Second Amendment Absolutist
NRA Benefactor Member, NRA Certified Instructor
Lt Col, USAF (Ret)
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