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Post subject: 2018 voter guide Ohio Governor candidates?
Post Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:38 am
I can't believe BFA endorsed Dewine. In 2010 BFA rated him a D and the NRA rated him an F. Please someone tell me BFA isn't that stupid to think he's actually changed. Obviously he's just playing us lipservice to get votes. And why no mention of this Irvine guy in the voter guide? He seems to be the only 2A candidate in the race.

Of course he stands no chance at winning but both Dewine and Cordray are both anti 2A liberals and we lose either way. So why isn't BFA endorsing this Irvine guy so that next time the GOP doesn't put up such a shitty candidate? Am I missing something? I just can't wrap my head around why BFA would endorse Dewine?
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Post subject: Re: 2018 voter guide Ohio Governor candidates?
Post Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:24 pm
They didn't endorse Travis Irvine exactly because he has no chance of winning - regardless of his pro-gun rights stance. They endorsed DeWine because he has a chance to win and they want to be on his good side if he does. In other words, pure politics. So much for being a pro-gun rights organization, eh?

Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
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Post subject: Re: 2018 voter guide Ohio Governor candidates?
Post Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:29 pm
Before either of you armchair referee our decision to endorse the Dewine Husted ticket, you may want to consider some other details. First of all, Jon Husted has a LOT to do with the fact CCW is legal for us, he was instrumental the passage of HB12. He is actually a champion of 2A rights here in Ohio.

As for Dewine, he has come a LONG way since his days in congress. Though he's not ever likely to become the poster child of RKBA, here are some of the things that he has done for us as AG:

Arming school staff: https://tinyurl.com/y73fbnxx

NTL right to carry: https://tinyurl.com/ycrbjnxv

CCW Reciprocity: https://tinyurl.com/ybug5kjm

Ammo Ban: https://tinyurl.com/ybvgwmoj

Amicus Brief: https://tinyurl.com/y6wty9lp

Ohio Lawsuit: https://tinyurl.com/y8pkkedn



No...Mike Dewine will never be "our champion". However, he was smart enough to pick a running mate who IS, and he has given us more than lip service, in my opinion. Something NOT plastered all over the internet or widely discussed, he also resolved an issue within the definition of certain firearms in Ohio He called us...we didn't call him. Kept us from yet one more legislative battle that would have wasted our time and resources.

He has, at the very least, seen the error of his ways. The first time I met him (2008-9 or so), I accidentally shook his hand at the Sportsman Alliance Political Reception in Cbus. Took a couple yrs to feel like I'd shook the slime off my hand. Last time I shook his hand was at the Sportsman's Alliance annual banquet this yr (he is still attending sportsman's/2A events), no slimy hand feeling this time :egrin:

So...before you condemn those of us on the endorsement committee for the decisions we have made, consider the information above. Consider what we KNOW we will get with Cordray, and then consider your own words here Of course he stands no chance at winning with regard to the other candidate. Then explain to me how it helps us to endorse the third party candidate?

Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths

James Madison,,
Federalist Paper No 10
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Post subject: Re: 2018 voter guide Ohio Governor candidates?
Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:25 pm
I though I did explain how it helps us to endorse a 3rd party candidate. If enough 2A voters voted for Irvine that would send a very clear message to the GOP that they need to give us better candidates if they want to win. If we vote for Dewine that just tells the GOP that we're ok with them putting up shitty anti 2A candidates and we will only continue to get shitty anti 2A candidates which weakens our position. Further a 3rd party endorsement strengthens your credibility showing that you stand by your principles. By only ever endorsing republicans you may as well just call yourself the gun toting arm of the Republican party. At least then you would be a little more honest that you care more about party than principle. For me I don't compromise my principles. I will cast my vote for the candidate that best represents me. I could care less what party they are running as or how likely they are to win or lose. It is logical to me that voting for only pro 2A candidate on the ballot is the only way I see to convince the GOP to put up more pro 2A candidates in the future. For me voting for Irvine is even an easier choice because the republicans will still control the Ohio legislature and be able to keep Cordray in check. Besides it is far easier for a republican legislature to resist a gun grabbing democrat governor than a gun grabbing republican governor. Just prior to responding to this I read this article that solidifies in my mind that Dewine is lying about his supposed 2A support. http://www.secondamendmentdaily.com/2018/10/kasichdewineguncontrol/

I find your mental gymnastics of an argument to support Dewine weak at best. I do however give you credit for at least attempting to justify the endorsement but I respectfully and vehemently disagree with it. IMHO a Dewine victory is more likely to weaken our position even more than a Cordray victory. If Dewine does somehow manage to win I sure hope I'm wrong about him still being anti 2A.
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Post subject: Re: 2018 voter guide Ohio Governor candidates?
Post Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:03 am
triangles:

IMHO, DeWine has been around long enough to (maybe) understand us. It's quite clear that Cordray is an Obama clone, and while he may understand us, he'll work against us, and appoint folks who will echo his stands.

Not voting for DeWine - voting for Travis Irvine - boils down to a vote for Cordray, as does just staying home, or leaving that candidacy blank. The days when a write-in could beat the establishment's candidates are, IMHO, long past, unless the alternative is really undesirable for everybody. Not likely that somebody like that would make the ticket as an establishment candidate. You can get a October Surprise, I suppose, but there are a lot of untutored voters who'd vote for Adolf Hitler if Ophra endorsed him....

I don't think DeWine is as anti as he used to be, although I still don't trust him. I don't think he'll flip like Kasich did, but I don't see him pushing a lot of stuff we'd like.

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

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Post subject: Re: 2018 voter guide Ohio Governor candidates?
Post Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:42 pm
triangles wrote:

I find your mental gymnastics of an argument to support Dewine weak at best. I do however give you credit for at least attempting to justify the endorsement but I respectfully and vehemently disagree with it. IMHO a Dewine victory is more likely to weaken our position even more than a Cordray victory. If Dewine does somehow manage to win I sure hope I'm wrong about him still being anti 2A.



I respect your opinion, and I cannot deny your logic either. It is exactly the way I looked at things years ago when I first came onto the endorsement committee...believe me! I can only encourage you to get as involved as you possibly can and stick to your ideals. Learn from every situation, attend political receptions, get to know the candidates personally, attend their fundraising events, work with them on policy/legislative changes, go to the state house to attend hearings, etc.. (if you are not already doing all of this)

So for my last mental "trip across the mats" I will leave you with this... while your idea of a "message" to the GOP sounds logical, the message an Ervine endorsement would more likely convey is "don't bother trying to change, or work with BFA, they will just endorse someone who cannot win, because of your past" heck of a way to develop a relationship with the Gov's office.

While I wish I could have stuck to the ideology I had 12-15yrs ago, time and experience have caused my "political logic" to evolve.

Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths

James Madison,,
Federalist Paper No 10
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Post subject: Re: 2018 voter guide Ohio Governor candidates?
Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:19 am
Looks like we get Dewine. Sure hope I am wrong about him still being anti-2A.
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Post subject: Re: 2018 voter guide Ohio Governor candidates?
Post Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:47 pm
Time will tell... I remain optimistic Jon will help guide Dewine in all things 2A related.

Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths

James Madison,,
Federalist Paper No 10
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