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Post subject: Wish list
Post Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:26 pm
It's the time of year when kids of all ages make out a list of thing they wish they'd get for Christmas.

What would gun owners like to see legislatively next year/session?

Jim
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:51 pm
Remove the requirement to inform LE you are carrying when stopped by LE.

_Don_
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:52 pm
Remove CHL holders from the LE database.

_Don_
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:04 pm
Curiosity - If you were not in any db, and you were not required to notify, would you?

Why/Why not?
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:59 pm
My priorities would be the following, not necessarily in this order:
End LEO notification
Stand Your Ground
Eliminate statutory CPZs, primarily schools, churches, and unsecured government buildings
Change self-defense so it is no longer an affirmative defense and place the burden on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the claim of self-defense is not valid. As I understand it, Ohio is the only remaining state in the US that has not done this.

Christian, Husband, Father
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:03 pm
JustaShooter wrote:
My priorities would be the following, not necessarily in this order:
End LEO notification
Stand Your Ground
Eliminate statutory CPZs, primarily schools, churches, and unsecured government buildings
Change self-defense so it is no longer an affirmative defense and place the burden on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the claim of self-defense is not valid. As I understand it, Ohio is the only remaining state in the US that has not done this.


I would just add to these:

Put teeth in ORC 9.68 as contained in HB203.

If schools can't be eliminated as CPZs, at least allow us to lock our guns in our cars on school property.

Either remove force of law from voluntarily posted CPZ signs, or regularize them and require them to be posted at each customer entrance to a business. The signs could be the same as the ones many businesses already have posted -- just so they are large enough to be easily observed (none of these two-inch-square transparent stickers, for example).

I realize that some of us don't look very hard for these signs, but I do -- I don't like giving my business to places that post them.

Zeko
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:05 am
Parking lot storage at workplace.
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:35 am
1.) Stand Your Ground
2.) Remove notification laws
3.) Parking lot storage at work

As far as notification is concerned, if I was not in a database and I was not under legal obligation I would not inform. If an Officer asks then I would inform. I don't believe there should be another mechanism for Officers/Prosecutors to make criminals out of LAC's. Also, it is a bit ridiculous since criminals will not be informing anyway and if it is about officer safety then only the people they have nothing to fear from will be informing.

I would guess that LE would ask if we were not forced to offer up the info and then they would have the same information they have now.

px

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:06 am
Constitutional Carry, Vermont style!
End the CHL! (unless you want it for out of state travel)

Victory is mine!
Armchair Elitist and Master of All That is Tacticool.
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:51 am
Remove "places of worship" from the list of places we can't carry. If a church wants to post a no guns sign they can restrict people that way. I've heard a lot of concerns about this law and don't agree with the way it is currently.

Honestly that's the only one I can come up with that hasn't been mentioned after thinking about it for awhile. Constitutional carry would be nice, or trim some more time off the training requirements. It's amazing how far this state has come in the last 10 years or so.

Thank you to all that work on this.

Joel
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:28 am
Only reason I ask about notifying cops is that most of them will give a CHL a break (professional courtesy) on minor violations. I know people who will notify even if they are not carrying, looking for that courtesy. Sometimes it works, sometimes they get chastised for not carrying a gun. (this is when your employers ban can actually help you out)

Feel free to mention ones that others already have. We are already working on next year's issues. Now is a good time to reset and think about what we want to focus on for the next session. We are having the same discussion internally at BFA, but we want to know what everyone wants. It helps us set priorities. Is it better to get the top item? Or better to get the next 5?

As always, not saying we get exactly what we ask for - if we did, our laws would look a lot different. But we know the legislature pretty well, and know which items should come easy, and which we need to do some education on. Sometimes we are surprised of course. Never would have dreamed hunting with suppressors would be so difficult, or that we would need to hire an audiologist and do demo's for legislators to debunk the myth that you can't slap one on a AR and have it be a pfft noise like the movies.

Thanks all for the comments. Keep them coming.
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:47 am
jirvine wrote:
Curiosity - If you were not in any db, and you were not required to notify, would you?

Why/Why not?

jirvine wrote:
Only reason I ask about notifying cops is that most of them will give a CHL a break (professional courtesy) on minor violations.


I would not. I have never been asked to exit my car for a minor violation (it "could" happen I suppose) so it is unlikely my being armed would be discovered. If I were asked to exit my car, I would then notify.

_Don_
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:20 pm
Could we do a fundraiser to purchase and provide every member of the legislature with a copy of John Lott's book More Guns Less Crime, http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Cr ... 0226493660. John Lott is an economist--a numbers cruncher. He uses government data to prove that arms control causes the very evil it purports to cure. He demonstrates that violent crime goes down wherever carrying concealed weapons is permitted, and that concurrently it goes up where carrying of concealed weapons is prohibited, i.e., in CPZ's. One example of his data analysis is crime data from Washington DC and contingent states before and after contingent states' enactment of CHL's. The contingent states' criminals moved their criminal activity to Washington DC after the citizens of the contingent states were permitted to carry, and crime went down in the contingent states and up in DC. This may help our legislators understand the need to eliminate CPZ's.

I think we should also prioritize changing parts of the law that constitute or result in banning firearms possession and use. I agree with the arguments against LE notification (it is none of their business and it only gives them a false sense of security), but that does not prevent someone from carrying a firearm. I also think that we should demand that our legislators obey the constitution and decriminalize the exercise of the 2nd Amendment, but we are not going to get that unless we can get a state constitutional amendment on the ballot that explicitly defines "right" "the people" "keep" "bear" "arms" "shall not" and "infringe" and imposes criminal penalties for anyone who infringes.

Please remain mindful of the tactic of those who wish to enslave us by surreptitiously expanding those on prohibited lists (eventually to include us all) by moving minor offenses into categories that create a weapons disability and broadening weapons disability categories.

Having said all that, my list is:
1. Propose the elimination of all CPZ's in one bill. Provide a copy of John Lott's book with the proposal. Some CPZ's may be removed through the legislative process, but we may actually get some.
2. Propose shifting the burden in self-defense to the state, via reasonable doubt.
3. Repeal duty to retreat.
4. Propose a seven year limit on firearms prohibitions in R.C. § 2923.13 or the addition of a "shall issue" restoration after seven years and upon certain other conditions such as crime free (including misdemeanors) in R.C. § 2923.14. Ohio allows those who have been convicted of crimes such as aggravated assault, robbery, burglary, menacing by stalking to have their privilege to be a Medicaid provider automatically restored seven years after being released from prison, parole or probation (See O.A.C. § 5160-45(D); http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/5160-45) and provide care for the most vulnerable in our society—some of whom cannot speak, but those same people lose their right to protect their families in their own homes for ever unless they can obtain a pardon (thanks to Sub HB 234), fit into the very narrow category of those who can have records sealed (thanks to Sub HB 234) or afford to move to certain rural counties in Ohio and apply for restoration under R.C. § 2923.14. If these people are deemed to be rehabilitated enough by the State of Ohio so as to allow them to care for the disabled, they should have an effective way to be able to protect their families in their own homes. I should note that the seven year limit is based upon sound research. Criminologists from the University of South Carolina and the University of Maryland published a study in 2006 which found that the risk of new offenses among those who last offended six or seven years ago begins to approximate the risk of new offenses among persons with no criminal record. See: Kurlchek et al., (2006), Scarlet Letters and Recidivism: Does an old criminal record predict future offending? Criminology & Public Policy, 5: 483–504. These findings resulted in a new federal statute on background checks for truckers driving hazardous materials that explicitly limits the use of criminal history records to seven years since the time of conviction. See: Kurlchek et al., (2006), at 499.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:08 pm
We can buy and give Lott's book to legislators, but we can't make them read it or learn the lessons within. Those that care, already know. Those we need to educate are not going to learn from the book. They need contact from constituents to make it personal for them.

Generalization of course, but in general this is where we are at. It's not about educating on issues, it's about developing trusted personal relationships. That is why campaign season is so important - it's when we can do for them and develop those relationships that they consider important.
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Post subject: Re: Wish list
Post Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:40 pm
I think that one of the most important things that we as gun owners need to push for in Ohio is Campus Carry. While I agree that all CPZs need to be eliminated, the largest CPZ of all is colleges and universities. In Ohio there are literally hundreds of thousands of college students and faculty members who are disarmed on a daily basis. Many of these students and faculty members are also veterans or otherwise well trained firearms owners. Many college campuses across Ohio are nearly as large as small cities, so the ban on campus carry is equivalent to Ohio not having State Preemption and a city simply banning all firearms. I think that this is an extremely important issue because of the sheer magnitude of the impact coupled with the fact that college campus are often situated close to high crime areas. This leaves all students and faculty members at the will of any criminal who steps foot on a college campus, not to mention that fact that any person who is carrying a weapon and unknowingly walks down a street that is considered part of a college campus will have committed a felony and will loose their right to own a firearm.
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