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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:42 pm
Liberty wrote:
Lets play your game and propose a specification called an a-hole prosecutor specification that defines prosecutors who commit more than one felony as an a-hole prosecutor that carries a 10 year mandatory prison term in addition to the statutory time for the crimes they committed. Other people who commit the same crimes would just serve the statutory time. We could base the need for such legislation on this tool: http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/ ... io-181.pdf. Would you be in favor of that?

So how are we defining this? Paul Cushion was convicted of Felonious Assault with a 3-year gun spec, so he would have one strike against him under the same provisions as those in SB 97. And how would you define "a-hole prosecutor"? Any prosecutor who has been disciplined by the Ohio Supreme Court?
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 9:41 pm
I thought I was clear Ralph. Nevertheless, let's make it simple and define it the same as SB 97, but use being a prosecutor instead of being a firearms owner.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:26 pm
Liberty wrote:
I thought I was clear Ralph. Nevertheless, let's make it simple and define it the same as SB 97, but use being a prosecutor instead of being a firearms owner.

Who's Ralph?

But you said "a-hole prosecutor," so I assumed you were talking about someone who did something reprehensible, and I figured that a prosecutor disciplined by the Ohio Supreme Court would be a good standard.
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:01 am
Stop the chicanery Ralph and answer the question.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:22 am
Liberty wrote:
Stop the chicanery Ralph and answer the question.

You appear to believe that I am Ralph "Paul" Cushion. I am amused. Is this another example of you making assumptions without confirming the facts?

As to whether I am Mr. Cushion, quite a few people who post in this forum have met me in real life and can "set you straight" that I am not who you appear to believe I am. In fact, several of them interacted with me at the University of Akron Open Carry, which you apparently lacked the courage to attend, despite our invitations and assurances that the event was deemed perfectly lawful by the university's General Counsel.

As to answering the question, it was you who conceptualized this "a-hole prosecutor" specification, and it was you who posted a link to Cushion's disciplinary action in the Ohio Supreme Court. When I asked if an "a-hole prosecutor" would be defined as one who had been disciplined by the Ohio Supreme Court, you did not answer that question. Please explain.
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 12:15 pm
Liberty, what are you trying to accomplish here? I know who Werz is, having participated in two or three (maybe it's more by now) gun rights events with him. His actual name isn't Ralph.

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 1:09 pm
What ever you say Ralph. Anyone can see from what was written here that the question is would you support SB 97 if the essential element of the specification was changed from being a firearms owner to being a prosecutor. Obviously you do not want to answer the question. Ralph is immaterial; it was just an example of how the anti-freedom people use cases to justify their discriminatory actions. You focused on it in order to divert attention away from the salient issue. Ralph was a sleazy prosecutor, and that is how sleazy prosecutors behave. So I'll call you Ralph from now on.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 3:02 pm
Liberty:

I'm not going to lock this thread - we have a couple of section mods who could do that.

However, you do appear to be making a personal attack against Werz, and that's a no-no.

What I think I'm seeing here is that the law you're referring to is one of those "more punishment if a gun is used" things. I think they're nonsense, too, usually, but a side issue. The actual offense, whatever that is, needs to be considered first, and if that's what the law covers, the rest doesn't necessarily matter.

(If I'm wrong, I'll apologize in advance....)

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

יזכר לא עד פעם
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:31 pm
He can call me a coward and a liar and misquote me with impunity, but I can't call him Ralph?

Anyhow, it is good to hear from you Stu. SB 97 is just Mike DeWine's recycled proposal from his gun control group that we discussed a couple of years ago here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17271. That is where you said this:
Quote:
Some of us (i.e., me ) just don't like the idea that somehow having a gun (or using one) makes a particular crime more or less wrong than involving a baseball bat or tire iron.... It's not the gun, it's the criminal with a gun, or a knife, or baseball bat, or whatever, that's the problem.

It is very similar to legislation that BFA strongly opposed here: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/sb332-be ... ot-her-gun. I am trying to get an answer as to why BFA leadership has not actively opposed it, and why it is not listed on BFA legislation page. It is on Toby Hoover's group's website (See http://ohioceasefire.org/content/ohio-bills-0).

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:34 pm
And by the way, I am quite certain that the coward and liar accusations would not come out of your mouth if we were standing face to face.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:02 pm
Liberty wrote:
And by the way, I am quite certain that the coward and liar accusations would not come out of your mouth if we were standing face to face.

Hmmm ... Did a text search. Couldn't find the words "coward" or "liar" in any of my posts.

If you want to meet me face-to-face, you will probably need to participate in some event to support the right to keep and bear arms.
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:08 pm
You didn't say this:
Werz wrote:
you apparently lacked the courage to attend

Your posts speak for themselves.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:18 pm
Liberty wrote:
You didn't say this:
Werz wrote:
you apparently lacked the courage to attend

Liberty wrote:
Werz wrote:
There will be a lot of armed people in the University of Akron Lot 27 on Saturday, April 25th. Will you be one of them?

Just askin' ... :mrgreen:

And get fired?
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:49 pm
I understand that you are trying to get this thread locked by continuing your personal attacks so that SB 97 cannot be discussed.

Can I get an answer from BFA leadership as to why they have not taken a position on SB 97?

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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Post subject: Re: Gun Control Legislation Introduced by Republicans (SB 97
Post Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:35 pm
I for one would like to thank Werz for his calm, rational and insightful participation on this forum. I always learn from his posts which are based on his years of experience in the legal profession.
As a non-lawyer (is that a term?) I am grateful for those in the legal profession who take their time and help us out! There are certain people who when I see their names I always make a point of reading their posts such as Werz, JediSkipDogg and Color of Law!
Thank you all very much for your participation!

px

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
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