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Post subject: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:43 am
I work for a small city (Local Government) in Ohio. Our City Manager just introduced a new Firearms Policy on the employees. I understand that I cannot carry into our buildings. What I am trying to fight is that I can no longer secure my firearm in my vehicle, nor can I conceal carry on any City property. I really hope Ohio SB180 will remove this. Does anyone have any experience with this? Does this conflict with ORC 9.68?


Here is a section from our policy.

"Other employees (which means not law enforcement), whether licensed to carry a concealed handgun or not, excluding those noted above, may not carry a concealed handgun or any weapon or explosive into or on any premise owned or leased by the City of $$$$$$, to include all facilities and the parking lots surrounding them. Other employees, are also prohibited: from handling or carrying a handgun or other weapon or explosives at any time while at work or while in the course of their employment; from carrying, transporting or storing a handgun or other weapon or explosives in a City vehicle at any time; and from carrying, transporting or storing a handgun other weapon or explosives in any vehicle while it is on the property owned or leased by the City of $$$$$."
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:35 pm
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Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:00 am
Welcome. Take a good look at the applicable sections of the Ohio Revised Code. You will find that the city is exceeding their authority with much of that verbiage.

Others who keep this legal stuff bookmarked will be along to provide more specifics.

On a side note, I am employed in the Fire/EMS racket by a small municipality. That part you mentioned about employees not handling explosives/weapons is in direct contradiction to certain emergency duties I am occasionally tasked with per specific policies and procedures in which I have been adequately if not expertly trained. For me that fact would present another argument to hit my bosses with if they passed such a law/regulation.

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:07 pm
Posts: 1919
Location: SW Ohio
Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:35 pm
Lon, check your PMs.

Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
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Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:36 am
Posts: 683
Location: Akron/Canton
Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:10 pm
Lon:

Welcome Aboard!

I think Brian has a T-shirt: "BOMB SQUAD. If you see me running, try to catch up."....

There's a sticky at http://forums.buckeyefirearms.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10097 that's worth a read, but it's not mandatory, and may be hazardous to your health. Only the first couple of pages unless you're into pain :D.... It'll give you some idea of who's here, and how this place works. And information on who the little dog in my avatar is....

About your question: I don't think the municipality can prevent you from storing a firearm in your vehicle, whether it's on their property, or just moving about, but it likely DOES apply to their vehicles. They can also stop you from carrying when out of any vehicle when you're working for them. The vehicle stuff becomes a condition of employment, and while there seems to be no way to restrict you while "in transit" - going to work or returning - they can try :(....

Someday....

Meantime, Brian probably has the necessary information.

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

יזכר לא עד פעם
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Location: Youngstown OH
Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:43 pm
Just a follow-up. Our City Manager has reversed this policy.

I've been gently fighting this, without risking my job, for about 2 weeks. So he had to get a legal opinion and not just copy what other cities in the area are doing. I do not know exactly what he was told, however he said he cannot prevent city employees from doing what the general public is allowed to do. If possible, I'll try to get what he was told in writing and post it here for those fighting the same battle.

Lon

I appreciate those that helped and their opinions. I didn't expect him to reverse the policy without a fight.

Lon
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:35 pm
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Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:04 pm
Perhaps you have a Law Director that isn't a complete moron. While not rare, exactly, they are not found everywhere, either.

In my thirty three plus years as an employee in the same town we have had one LD out of six or seven that I would rate as a sharp cookie. Friends with jobs like mine elsewhere report similar findings.

Sounds like things are going in the right direction for you at this point. If your Law Director shaped this decision, do a public records request and get a written copy.

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:07 pm
Posts: 1919
Location: SW Ohio
Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:42 pm
Lon, we as citizens need those citizens that take a position in government to stand-up for the constitution they agreed to sign an oath too. In other words, government workers are not more equal than their follow citizens. It appears from your posting you understand that we are all in this together.

I hope you hang around.
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Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:45 am
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Location: Too close to Cincinnati
Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:12 pm
After pondering what your City Manager wrote originally I surmised that the policy was aimed at some particular employee that management had a bone to pick with. Just the view from my saddle though, and occasionally in these matters I am in error.

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:07 pm
Posts: 1919
Location: SW Ohio
Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:12 pm
I think SB 180 would solve employee parking lot issues. Does the BFA have any updates? I emailed my rep a couple weeks ago but I have not heard not back.
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:47 am
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Location: Findlay
Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:41 am
The bill was referred to the Civil Justice committee in June but has not been acted upon.

BTW, HB 180 will solve exactly nothing. Ohio is an At-Will employment state, unless you are protected by a contract or similar, you can be fired for any reason - or no reason - at any time. Even if SB 180 passes and is signed into law, a simple "your services are no longer required" and you are done. Try proving it was because you had a gun in your car.

BFA and other gun rights groups would be better served spending what limited political influence we have on other more important legislation.

Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
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Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:09 pm
cfranks82 wrote:
I think SB 180 would solve employee parking lot issues. Does the BFA have any updates? I emailed my rep a couple weeks ago but I have not heard not back.


Firearm groups have been told while Kasich is making his presidential run he won't touch gun bills. Therefore the legislative has been told to simply sit on them while he makes the attempt. Nothing will happen until he is not the candidate for president.
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Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:18 pm
JediSkipdogg wrote:
cfranks82 wrote:
I think SB 180 would solve employee parking lot issues. Does the BFA have any updates? I emailed my rep a couple weeks ago but I have not heard not back.


Firearm groups have been told while Kasich is making his presidential run he won't touch gun bills. Therefore the legislative has been told to simply sit on them while he makes the attempt. Nothing will happen until he is not the candidate for president.

Screw you citizen, we got politics to deal with.
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Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:31 pm
color of law wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:
cfranks82 wrote:
I think SB 180 would solve employee parking lot issues. Does the BFA have any updates? I emailed my rep a couple weeks ago but I have not heard not back.


Firearm groups have been told while Kasich is making his presidential run he won't touch gun bills. Therefore the legislative has been told to simply sit on them while he makes the attempt. Nothing will happen until he is not the candidate for president.

Screw you citizen, we got politics to deal with.


You got that right! Legislators and governors don't care that such delays in improving laws have the potential to increase dangers for law abiding citizens like us. Ultimately they don't care about that nearly so much as feathering their own nests.

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:07 pm
Posts: 1919
Location: SW Ohio
Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:07 am
A follow up this mess.

This is what the attorney said. He is an attorney out of Columbus and not our City Attorney (he is anti-gun).

"I believe the City has to permit employees with a CCW to keep the gun properly locked in their vehicle on City property. The statute makes a distinction between public and private employers. Under the law, a private employer specifically is given the right to prohibit the weapon on its parking lot. Public employers are not given that right under the law."

Here is an excerpt of our new policy:

"Employees with a valid CCW may keep their gun properly locked in their vehicle on City owned or leased property. The gun(s) shall not be removed from the vehicle while the employee is on property that is owned or leased by the City and the vehicle shall remain locked at all times. Explosives are prohibited on City owned or leased property unless being used as part of an employees work duties and responsibilities."


I can live with this new policy. I do disagree with adding CCW into the mix, I don't think that should come into play. However, in my opinion, if you are going to carry you should have your CCW. Open carry is no longer socially acceptable.

Lon
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Post subject: Re: Local City Employee Policy
Post Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:42 am
I think the policy is still in violation of ORC 9.68. They cannot prohibit you from carrying *anywhere* except government facilities.

Oh, and Open Carry is more socially acceptable than you think. Many of us do so daily without incident. And, the city can't prohibit you from doing that either.

Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
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