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Post subject: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims
Post Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:57 am
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf ... er_do.html

Read the article. My girlfriend knew this woman. They were good friends. I agree More needs to be done to protect Domestic Violence Victims. More gun laws are not needed. People intent on conducting criminal activity, premeditated or not, will get their hands on a gun. Criminals always have guns. This was a premeditated murder.

Women need to protect themselves in a domestic situation. They can get an emergency permit issued when this situation occurs. All women who qualify should take a CCW Class and get their permit. Carry everyday just like you carry your purse. Don't rely on law enforcement or the justice system to protect you. They have failed over and over in regards to this situation. When charges are filed for domestic violence, no plea bargins should be allowed. Any man that lays his hands in a abusive manner on a woman should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The bill that has been introduced above should be altered to automatically issue a search warrant for the abuser's place of residence, place of work and any other property owned. The search warrant should allow the confiscation of firearms and all firearms related items. The abuser should be held in custody until all search warrants have been executed. This should then go on their record and show in a background check, when license plates are run and when applying for employment. If this person is found to be in possession of any firearm related items after this, it should be automatic imprisonment. The bill should also allow police to conduct a search at any given time unnotified to verify that this person is not in possession of any prohibited items.

I am pro-gun. I have a CCW and carry everyday, but I do believe victims in this situation need to be protected to the full extent of the law. These children now have to deal with this memory and pain now for the rest of their lives because of one person who couldn't straighten out their life, get the help they needed and decided to play God.
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Post subject: Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims
Post Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:59 am
The potential for abuse in the proposed law, especially with your proposed changes, is immense. I could not possibly support such legislation. I have seen what happens on the other side, where someone is accused unjustly. I cannot imagine how bad it would have been if this law, especially with your proposed changes, had been in effect.

Christian, Husband, Father
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Post subject: Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims
Post Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:15 am
JustaShooter wrote:
The potential for abuse in the proposed law, especially with your proposed changes, is immense. I could not possibly support such legislation. I have seen what happens on the other side, where someone is accused unjustly. I cannot imagine how bad it would have been if this law, especially with your proposed changes, had been in effect.


There would have to be proven abuse. In this case there were multiple police reports filed and 2 judges still thought he wasn't a threat. He had known suicidal issues, PTSD and made homicidal threats to her, the kids and family. As with any law there is potential for abuse, but DV victims needs to be protected. A man that hits, abuses (mentally, emotionally or physically) a woman is HUGE pet peeve of mine. I have intervened in situations in the past. Not one regret for what I did either. Any man that abuses a female should be slowly tortured and put to death. You are not a man if you abuse a female or children. Abusers and molesters top my list of the need for an immediate death penalty. Now these children have to deal with this memory the rest of their lives and not have any parents. I'm sorry you feel that way Shooter. Maybe if someone close to you was the recipient of abuse or molestation, you might think differently. I've witnessed it first hand with people close to me and people I didn't know.
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Post subject: Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims
Post Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:00 am
Stiltz79 wrote:
There would have to be proven abuse.

You say that, but above you also say this:
Quote:
The bill that has been introduced above should be altered to automatically issue a search warrant for the abuser's place of residence, place of work and any other property owned. The search warrant should allow the confiscation of firearms and all firearms related items. The abuser should be held in custody until all search warrants have been executed. This should then go on their record and show in a background check, when license plates are run and when applying for employment. If this person is found to be in possession of any firearm related items after this, it should be automatic imprisonment. The bill should also allow police to conduct a search at any given time unnotified to verify that this person is not in possession of any prohibited items.


I see nothing about "proven abuse" only accusation and then unleashing the machinery of government. This would be a fierce weapon that an accuser could wield against someone unjustly. No. No! A thousand times no!

Christian, Husband, Father
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Post subject: Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims
Post Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:08 am
JustaShooter wrote:
Stiltz79 wrote:
There would have to be proven abuse.

You say that, but above you also say this:
Quote:
The bill that has been introduced above should be altered to automatically issue a search warrant for the abuser's place of residence, place of work and any other property owned. The search warrant should allow the confiscation of firearms and all firearms related items. The abuser should be held in custody until all search warrants have been executed. This should then go on their record and show in a background check, when license plates are run and when applying for employment. If this person is found to be in possession of any firearm related items after this, it should be automatic imprisonment. The bill should also allow police to conduct a search at any given time unnotified to verify that this person is not in possession of any prohibited items.


I see nothing about "proven abuse" only accusation and then unleashing the machinery of government. This would be a fierce weapon that an accuser could wield against someone unjustly. No. No! A thousand times no!



You can't get a restraining order with just a statement. Once the order is issued, then the above take place. Someone wants to think they're a better person because they can bully someone around, then once the order is in place you deserve to have your life ruined. If you're not abusive, then you would have nothing to worry about.
I can't agree with you on this one. Your partner is supposed to be your equal.
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Post subject: Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims
Post Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:19 pm
Stiltz79 wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
Stiltz79 wrote:
There would have to be proven abuse.

You say that, but above you also say this:
Quote:
The bill that has been introduced above should be altered to automatically issue a search warrant for the abuser's place of residence, place of work and any other property owned. The search warrant should allow the confiscation of firearms and all firearms related items. The abuser should be held in custody until all search warrants have been executed. This should then go on their record and show in a background check, when license plates are run and when applying for employment. If this person is found to be in possession of any firearm related items after this, it should be automatic imprisonment. The bill should also allow police to conduct a search at any given time unnotified to verify that this person is not in possession of any prohibited items.


I see nothing about "proven abuse" only accusation and then unleashing the machinery of government. This would be a fierce weapon that an accuser could wield against someone unjustly. No. No! A thousand times no!



You can't get a restraining order with just a statement. Once the order is issued, then the above take place. Someone wants to think they're a better person because they can bully someone around, then once the order is in place you deserve to have your life ruined. If you're not abusive, then you would have nothing to worry about.
I can't agree with you on this one. Your partner is supposed to be your equal.

Yes you can, it's done all the time. I despise legislation that is based on emotion. I have been married over 40 years. Before we were married I had one rule that I would never hit her out of anger. However, if she ever hit me in anger I would knock her across the room. I think in all these years we had maybe two verbal disagreements.

When I was young I had a friend that hit his wife in front of me. After he picked himself up off the floor I informed him that if it ever happened again he would not be able to pick himself up off the floor again. He knew I meant what I said. They divorced and he moved away.

I have also known a number of women making false accusations against their boyfriends and/or husbands for revenge purposes and the courts unconditionally believe the woman. These laws are abused and are intentionally abused by the courts.

Bad legislation create unintended victims because the legislation is designed to give the appearance of due process of law when, in fact, if does not.
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Post subject: Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims
Post Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:31 pm
Stiltz79 wrote:
If you're not abusive, then you would have nothing to worry about.


Where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah: "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

Stiltz79 wrote:
I can't agree with you on this one. Your partner is supposed to be your equal.

And I can't agree with you. I've see how the current law is already abused, and this would make it far worse. In the words of a friend elsewhere,
Quote:
That is a failure of the people in positions of authority. It is not a failure of the law. No amount of new law will fix such failures. The proposed law is worse than what it is aimed at fixing.

Christian, Husband, Father
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Post subject: Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims
Post Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:22 pm
Most domestic violence is man abusing wife/girlfriend not involving a firearm. Prohibiting the man from possessing a firearm removes all firearms from the home thereby disarming the woman too. Then she is unarmed with a false sense of security. And who wins a fight if the woman is not armed? Such a prohibition only shifts the balance of power to the abuser and makes the victim more vulnerable.

Also, search and seizure is governed by the Constitution and cannot be simply overridden by statutory mandates.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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