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Post subject: Identifying "No Gun" Businesses ; Hit Them in the Wallet
Post Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:50 am
Thought I’d point out restaurant/activity social media rating sites like “TripAdvisor”, “Yelp” and “Zomato” are great places to call attention to businesses that do not allow guns on their premises. I've been doing this now for a year or so and have never had a review edited or deleted. If you opt to do so, my advice is to write a polite, honest review, and conclude it with something like, “I was disappointed to note the owners of this establishment does not respect my 2nd Amendment rights and has a ‘no firearms’ sign posted. While doing so is the owner's right, this alone will preclude me from returning.” The point is, you probably should not get overly political with your post.

I've been pleasantly surprised at the number of positive/helpful votes my reviews pointing out such businesses have received from readers of these sites. At the very least such reviews will alert CCW holders an establishment is posted, and will hopefully send them and their money to businesses where they are welcome.
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Post subject: Re: Identifying "No Gun" Businesses ; Hit Them in the Wallet
Post Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:59 am
Clifden:

Welcome Aboard!

There's a sticky at http://forums.buckeyefirearms.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10097 that you should have a look at. But, it's not mandatory, and may be sleep inducing, but you might learn a bit about who's here, and how this place works. Don't try to get past the first couple pages, though, unless you're into masochism.... I forgot to lock it up....

Good idea with the TripAdvisor and similar sites. I wondered if they'd accept that sort of post. Good show!

I ran into a couple of CPZ sillinesses (is that a word?) in the last couple weeks. The wife had a knee replacement, and the hospital that the doctor insisted on has changed ownership and names several times in the last few months. When the CHL law appeared in 2004, their then-management spent a pile on "no guns" signs. They were hard to read, and they claimed to have no money either. Additional construction and remodeling occurred, again with no money claimed.

I tried to get her to make the doc pick another facility (there are four in the area) and, if necessary a few more surgeons. No luck.... Well, it was cleaner than the last time I was in there :), but the signs had all vanished!

(She did OK, and was tossed into a nursing home for rehab. Another couple of days....)

The rehab place isn't posted - I don't recall it ever being, but their parking lot, shared with a now-"for sale" medical office building, has a big "NO GUNS NOT NEVER" on their parking lot, at one of two entrances.

As you know, those parking lots are no longer CPZ's unless the owners want to sue you, and, of course, prove loss. Almost a non-existent sign, but only for the lot. (IMHO, that sign does not do anything for the building, just the lot.)

The nursing home, btw, is quite nice, but some of the staff are in over their heads if anything untowards happens. I've been in better. The wife worked at a better one for over 20 years, but it's across town.

Anyway, again, thanks, and welcome aboard. I'm wondering if the legal eagles on-board will complain due to what might be slander or libel if propagated on social media, but. Film at 11 :D....

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

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Post subject: Re: Identifying "No Gun" Businesses ; Hit Them in the Wallet
Post Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:57 pm
SMMAssociates wrote:
As you know, those parking lots are no longer CPZ's unless the owners want to sue you, and, of course, prove loss. Almost a non-existent sign, but only for the lot. (IMHO, that sign does not do anything for the building, just the lot.)

Actually that is no longer the case. SB 199, §1, eff. 3/21/2017, changed that with the enactment of R.C. § 2923.1210, which states the following:

(A) A business entity, property owner, or public or private employer may not establish, maintain, or enforce a policy or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting a person who has been issued a valid concealed handgun license from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition when both of the following conditions are met:
(1) Each firearm and all of the ammunition remains inside the person's privately owned motor vehicle while the person is physically present inside the motor vehicle, or each firearm and all of the ammunition is locked within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or container within or on the person's privately owned motor vehicle;
(2) The vehicle is in a location where it is otherwise permitted to be.

While this was sold as employee parking lot carry, its application is clearly broader.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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Post subject: Re: Identifying "No Gun" Businesses ; Hit Them in the Wallet
Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:25 am
Liberty:

Thanks!

SB199 adds to the protections enacted a bit ago to prevent an employer from punishing an employee for having a weapon in their vehicle. Unfortunately, it lacks any real teeth. Being an "at will" employment state, the employer can usually find a way.

Again, you can't carry in the building, or on/in the PARKING LOT, but at least you don't have to leave the gun at home, or take it home before you enter the lot.

School premises don't seem to want you to exit the vehicle at all, and no sign is required. We're trying to loosen that up (if not kill it entirely) so you can help the kids into or out of the school building, take your spouse (or other party) to/from the facility, etc., and deal with sign in, or sign out, situations.

Someday....

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

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Post subject: Re: Identifying "No Gun" Businesses ; Hit Them in the Wallet
Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:27 am
SMMAssociates wrote:
School premises don't seem to want you to exit the vehicle at all, and no sign is required. We're trying to loosen that up (if not kill it entirely) so you can help the kids into or out of the school building, take your spouse (or other party) to/from the facility, etc., and deal with sign in, or sign out, situations.

Someday....

FYI, SB 199 also allows you to exit the vehicle on school grounds as long as the handgun remains locked in the vehicle.

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Post subject: Re: Identifying "No Gun" Businesses ; Hit Them in the Wallet
Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:06 pm
Liberty wrote:
SMMAssociates wrote:
As you know, those parking lots are no longer CPZ's unless the owners want to sue you, and, of course, prove loss. Almost a non-existent sign, but only for the lot. (IMHO, that sign does not do anything for the building, just the lot.)

Actually that is no longer the case. SB 199, §1, eff. 3/21/2017, changed that with the enactment of R.C. § 2923.1210, which states the following:

(A) A business entity, property owner, or public or private employer may not establish, maintain, or enforce a policy or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting a person who has been issued a valid concealed handgun license from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition when both of the following conditions are met:
(1) Each firearm and all of the ammunition remains inside the person's privately owned motor vehicle while the person is physically present inside the motor vehicle, or each firearm and all of the ammunition is locked within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or container within or on the person's privately owned motor vehicle;
(2) The vehicle is in a location where it is otherwise permitted to be.

While this was sold as employee parking lot carry, its application is clearly broader.

I would not try to push this statute outside its bounds. If pushed to far it could be in conflict with 2923.126(C)(3)(a), civil trespass in a parking lot.
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Post subject: Re: Identifying "No Gun" Businesses ; Hit Them in the Wallet
Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:31 pm
Liberty wrote:
(2) The vehicle is in a location where it is otherwise permitted to be.

While this was sold as employee parking lot carry, its application is clearly broader.


Hmm, that doesn't look good. The employer could easily say only vehicles without guns in them are permitted to be in the parking lot?

Anyone near the polaris area? Both the Qdoba and the ice cream place have new CPZ signs that were not there before, I'm wondering if the lot /building owner passed them out to everyone. Luckily a new ice cream place opened on Sancus where AT&T used to be and its not a CPZ so I go there now.
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Post subject: Re: Identifying "No Gun" Businesses ; Hit Them in the Wallet
Post Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:28 am
color of law wrote:
I would not try to push this statute outside its bounds. If pushed to far it could be in conflict with 2923.126(C)(3)(a), civil trespass in a parking lot.

There is no conflict. A private property owner can still post a gun buster sign and enforce it through civil trespass statutes, but R.C. § 2923.1210 carved out an exception, i.e., when:

(1) Each firearm and all of the ammunition remains inside the person's privately owned motor vehicle while the person is physically present inside the motor vehicle, or each firearm and all of the ammunition is locked within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or container within or on the person's privately owned motor vehicle;

(2) The vehicle is in a location where it is otherwise permitted to be.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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Post subject: Re: Identifying "No Gun" Businesses ; Hit Them in the Wallet
Post Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:31 am
Eugene wrote:
Hmm, that doesn't look good. The employer could easily say only vehicles without guns in them are permitted to be in the parking lot?

That would have the effect of prohibiting a person who has been issued a valid concealed handgun license from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition, and therefore, would be in violation of R.C. § 2923.1210.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.
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