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Post subject: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Union
Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:55 am
I may be crazy ... but i think a lot of folks seem to be freedom and constitutionally dyslexic..........

Government in unions ..... next thing you know the military and federal government will tell us our rights based on how many folks hang outside in a park long enough to cause trouble and what agreements they can negotiate to get what they want?

I think its about time we re-occupy America ... reoccupy our cities, our townships and our government............. there is a reason why we have out 2a .... and its when our republic turns into a mob rule government who doesn’t care about constitutional rights and what we as American's truly stand for... and that is INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS .. not mass entitlements, government unions, government free entitlements, minority rule, & business bailout bull!

If our for-fathers had thought for a minute that money and contracts where more important than their individual freedoms then we would be in a shit load of trouble..... i can only wish i had the bravery of our creators did..... they would not have put up with government ruling with an illusion of the a government employee.

To pretend as though you work, as an employee and are not a part of the cog of government is like saying the hammer isn’t part of a handgun, that a bullet is just a secondary part that isn’t necessary to use a handgun, that you (a gov employee) is separate from government. It would be like saying that King George was only a evil British monarch from 9am-5pm. You have got to be kidding me?!

Some how 7% of this state won, using the other 93% as their pawns .... HOW many folks here think they WON (as they have said in the press a million times) ... how did you directly benefit from allowing government unions if your not in one? and to allow our government to negotiate with other government entities without us? ? I mean for once in my lifetime, government made a a law to limit government and the mob rule WON using government and their commercial lies to influence us to fill their pockets and save their bank accounts?

Kasich may have said that he "needs time to reflect" I would tooo .... you liberals, union communists, and greed mongers have been bitching for decades, long before i was born that government & corporations take to much, uses to much, and makes to much money ... yet here we are, and you couldn’t control yourselves if it meant that you wouldn’t profit. I mean finally we get government to control government ..... and for profit you lie to us, make us fear that we will loose our lives if we don’t support you ..... YOU ARE GOVERNMENT!!!!! FOR god sakes .... save us from YOU!!!

So we just allow a cops to infringe upon our constitutional rights and hope that a judge or jury will take our word before theirs? I mean of course government always takes the citizens word first right ... and the government employee isn’t always right? Does it really take a 3rd video to rid this government communist union member from our ranks? I wont BS you, if me and MR 3rd video ever meet in an ally knowing of his pervious infractions ........ i think you may know what the outcome would be. "Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I Die, You are forgiven. If I Live, I will kill you." Such is the Rule of Honor"

Tomorrow isnt garanteed to you or I, but freedom from other individuals and government & their employees is.

We as a people need to stop and reflect .. not on what we have, but what could be ... our fathers and for-fathers didnt give their lives to protect themselves, but gave their lives to protect our futures ...... think about it. We dont carry just for ourselves, we carry for our loved ones and those who cannot protect themselves. It is an ideal that America has been built on ... that it is those who gave their lives for our freedoms that we may carry on and must fullfill our destinies like our father, grandfathers, and beyond ..... we fight for america at all costs .... individual freedom for the sake of the masses to choose their own destiny and future of their selves and loved ones, not mob rule.

For all come short of the glory of god. To teach a man/woman to fish is better than feeding them for a day .. these are all things that while you may not be religious that we all should abide by. This is individual freedom ... the freedom to charge in at all costs, to fail, to learn from our mistakes .. this is America ... it isnt about sitting on your a** playing video games in hopes that you will get a promotion at you gas station job because you thought you had a great year and worked hard? Its about risking yourself, your hard earned saved dollor or the money that was passed onto you in hopes to achieve the American dream .....

this isnt about taking a job and then feeling that you deserve more..... occupying a street with no goals ... this is about occupying yourselves, to take control of your lives and your government in a realistic way and not playing into the falsehoods of society.

THIS IS REOCCUPY AMERICA the UNITED!!!!!! We are all individuals ... if the 1% can do it .. so can we! Eliminate the need for Government and eliminate the need to tax your hourly wage. We as America can feed the hungry, we can shelter the homeless, we can take care of the widowed, the orpaned .............we can without them ...... let me say it again ... WE CAN WITHOUT THEM!!!!!
Last edited by AaronM on Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:03 am
The bottom line is get informed, these contracts the union thugs have are PUBLIC records, get a copy, see what kind of goodies they have "negotiated" with the clowns appointed to "negotiate".

I think "negotiation" with public employee unions is like the "negotiating" done in the movie "Braveheart"...where the lords got lands and titles in exhange for not doing battle.

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:22 am
AaronBMahan wrote:
willbird wrote:
The bottom line is get informed, these contracts the union thugs have are PUBLIC records, get a copy, see what kind of goodies they have "negotiated" with the clowns appointed to "negotiate".

I think "negotiation" with public employee unions is like the "negotiating" done in the movie "Braveheart"...where the lords got lands and titles in exhange for not doing battle.


I thuoght I would take it upon myself to change your post .. i hope you dont mind?

Quote:
I think "negotiation" with public employee unions is like the "negotiating" done in the movie "Braveheart"...where the union lords got lands and titles (influence & power in government) (While the peasents are drawn and quartered) in exhange union lobbiest demands for not doing battle.

Now if only we could paint our faces blue and meet in the middle of a field............ Ive got 100k on Rich2.0, a crazy dog owned by SMMASSOC. & a certain special 1911 that is my bed time dolly. before you judge me... this dolly bites hard!
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:39 pm
W - here's a heads up on the negotiators. I can apprise you that at the statewide level, we employed a hired gun (a professional contract negotiator out of Cleveland) to assist us. Periodically, I do sub-contract work (HR investigations) for another labor relations hired gun (attorney in Columbus.) Both top shelf individuals, and expensive.

I know yet another attorney who also does politics as well as public sector labor contract negotiation. This guy also does county and city labor negotiations. The guys I have seen on the management side have always been top flight individuals.

But, if a stalemate is reached on certain issues (usually wages, benefits. etc) the contract language typically goes to fact-finding. Fact-finding is usually binding on both parties (unless in the most egregious set of circumstances) and is not typically appealable. The fact-finder can award what he deems appropriate. Ergo the term binding.

If the employer does not have the money in reserve or reachable, then the political sub-division must find it. The employer/appointing authority may reduce or eliminate services, or may choose to lay off a number of PT or FT e/e's. Land and/or equipment or tangible property may be sold. Taxes may be raised. Combinations thereof.

It's an expensive process and one which was not mandated prior to Ohio's Collective Bargaining Law, circa 1983. Both management and unions bring in their A Team, depending on the amount of wages, benefits and conditions/terms on the bargaining table.
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:33 pm
Have you ever heard of a Fact finder awarding something that the financial records of the agency showed they could not afford? Also fact finding reports can be accepted, rejected, or not acted on and allowed to pass, just like a bill to the President. If both groups do not agree with the fact finders report, a Conciliator (Arbitrator) will be brought in to decide one sides last best offer or the other. Only if your CBA states (through prior agreement to) that you have binding arbitration, it is over. If not, the next step is to appeal to the County municipal court for a ruling.
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:34 pm
AaronBMahan wrote:
I may be crazy ... but i think a lot of folks seem to be freedom and constitutionally dyslexic..........

Government in unions ..... next thing you know the military and federal government will tell us our rights based on how many folks hang outside in a park long enough to cause trouble and what agreements they can negotiate to get what they want?

I think its about time we re-occupy America ... reoccupy our cities, our townships and our government............. there is a reason why we have out 2a .... and its when our republic turns into a mob rule government who doesn’t care about constitutional rights and what we as American's truly stand for... and that is INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS .. not mass entitlements, government unions, government free entitlements, minority rule, & business bailout bull!

If our for-fathers had thought for a minute that money and contracts where more important than their individual freedoms then we would be in a shit load of trouble..... i can only wish i had the bravery of our creators did..... they would not have put up with government ruling with an illusion of the a government employee.

To pretend as though you work, as an employee and are not a part of the cog of government is like saying the hammer isn’t part of a handgun, that a bullet is just a secondary part that isn’t necessary to use a handgun, that you (a gov employee) is separate from government. It would be like saying that King George was only a evil British monarch from 9am-5pm. You have got to be kidding me?!

Some how 7% of this state won, using the other 93% as their pawns .... HOW many folks here think they WON (as they have said in the press a million times) ... how did you directly benefit from allowing government unions if your not in one? and to allow our government to negotiate with other government entities without us? ? I mean for once in my lifetime, government made a a law to limit government and the mob rule WON using government and their commercial lies to influence us to fill their pockets and save their bank accounts?

Kasich may have said that he "needs time to reflect" I would tooo .... you liberals, union communists, and greed mongers have been bitching for decades, long before i was born that government & corporations take to much, uses to much, and makes to much money ... yet here we are, and you couldn’t control yourselves if it meant that you wouldn’t profit. I mean finally we get government to control government ..... and for profit you lie to us, make us fear that we will loose our lives if we don’t support you ..... YOU ARE GOVERNMENT!!!!! FOR god sakes .... save us from YOU!!!

So we just allow a cops to infringe upon our constitutional rights and hope that a judge or jury will take our word before theirs? I mean of course government always takes the citizens word first right ... and the government employee isn’t always right? Does it really take a 3rd video to rid this government communist union member from our ranks? I wont BS you, if me and MR 3rd video ever meet in an ally knowing of his pervious infractions ........ i think you may know what the outcome would be. "Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I Die, You are forgiven. If I Live, I will kill you." Such is the Rule of Honor"

Tomorrow isnt garanteed to you or I, but freedom from other individuals and government & their employees is.

We as a people need to stop and reflect .. not on what we have, but what could be ... our fathers and for-fathers didnt give their lives to protect themselves, but gave their lives to protect our futures ...... think about it. We dont carry just for ourselves, we carry for our loved ones and those who cannot protect themselves. It is an ideal that America has been built on ... that it is those who gave their lives for our freedoms that we may carry on and must fullfill our destinies like our father, grandfathers, and beyond ..... we fight for america at all costs .... individual freedom for the sake of the masses to choose their own destiny and future of their selves and loved ones, not mob rule.

For all come short of the glory of god. To teach a man/woman to fish is better than feeding them for a day .. these are all things that while you may not be religious that we all should abide by. This is individual freedom ... the freedom to charge in at all costs, to fail, to learn from our mistakes .. this is America ... it isnt about sitting on your a** playing video games in hopes that you will get a promotion at you gas station job because you thought you had a great year and worked hard? Its about risking yourself, your hard earned saved dollor or the money that was passed onto you in hopes to achieve the American dream .....

this isnt about taking a job and then feeling that you deserve more..... occupying a street with no goals ... this is about occupying yourselves, to take control of your lives and your government in a realistic way and not playing into the falsehoods of society.

THIS IS REOCCUPY AMERICA the UNITED!!!!!! We are all individuals ... if the 1% can do it .. so can we! Eliminate the need for Government and eliminate the need to tax your hourly wage. We as America can feed the hungry, we can shelter the homeless, we can take care of the widowed, the orpaned .............we can without them ...... let me say it again ... WE CAN WITHOUT THEM!!!!!


By the way, this is the third thread that I have seen the same post in by you. Are you trolling?
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:36 pm
AaronBMahan wrote:
Now if only we could paint our faces blue and meet in the middle of a field............ Ive got 100k on Rich2.0, a crazy dog owned by SMMASSOC. & a certain special 1911 that is my bed time dolly. before you judge me... this dolly bites hard!


Aaron:

It's "SMMASSOCS", or "SMM Associates".... :D

Sammy takes offense. But he's more than a little nuts. Of late, he's been busy trying to make out with the cats. That one cat is a male, and both cats (and him) have been "fixed", doesn't seem to matter....

Now if I can find the blue paint.... :mrgreen:

Moderator hat on....

We've got a couple complaints about union bashing, and union proponents bashing union bashers. Please try to keep it civil. Rich hasn't banned anybody for a while, and we all know that he lives for mayhem.... :evil:

Moderator hat off....

(Where did Braveheart's guys get blue paint? No Tru-Valu then.... Maybe WalMart? :D)

(Some of those greeters may have been there....)

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to try to calm Sammy down.

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

יזכר לא עד פעם
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:38 pm
SMMAssociates wrote:
AaronBMahan wrote:
Now if only we could paint our faces blue and meet in the middle of a field............ Ive got 100k on Rich2.0, a crazy dog owned by SMMASSOC. & a certain special 1911 that is my bed time dolly. before you judge me... this dolly bites hard!


Aaron:

It's "SMMASSOCS", or "SMM Associates".... :D

Sammy takes offense. But he's more than a little nuts. Of late, he's been busy trying to make out with the cats. That one cat is a male, and both cats (and him) have been "fixed", doesn't seem to matter....

Now if I can find the blue paint.... :mrgreen:

Moderator hat on....

We've got a couple complaints about union bashing, and union proponents bashing union bashers. Please try to keep it civil. Rich hasn't banned anybody for a while, and we all know that he lives for mayhem.... :evil:

Moderator hat off....

(Where did Braveheart's guys get blue paint? No Tru-Valu then.... Maybe WalMart? :D)

(Some of those greeters may have been there....)

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to try to calm Sammy down.

Regards,


Wow, Cats? Poor dog. Prison will do that to ya I hear.
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:45 pm
jmstevens2 wrote:
Have you ever heard of a Fact finder awarding something that the financial records of the agency showed they could not afford? Also fact finding reports can be accepted, rejected, or not acted on and allowed to pass, just like a bill to the President. If both groups do not agree with the fact finders report, a Conciliator (Arbitrator) will be brought in to decide one sides last best offer or the other. Only if your CBA states (through prior agreement to) that you have binding arbitration, it is over. If not, the next step is to appeal to the County municipal court for a ruling.


Sure, in one budgetary cycle, the a number of state agencies had to RIF a number of FTE's to ensure the agencies met budgetary constraints. It happens.
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:47 pm
The Management side didn't prepare well enough. When the arbitrator didn't see that they could afford it, they always flat told us so and found for Management. Hard to argue that.
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:08 am
Tweed Ring wrote:
W - here's a heads up on the negotiators. I can apprise you that at the statewide level, we employed a hired gun (a professional contract negotiator out of Cleveland) to assist us. Periodically, I do sub-contract work (HR investigations) for another labor relations hired gun (attorney in Columbus.) Both top shelf individuals, and expensive.

I know yet another attorney who also does politics as well as public sector labor contract negotiation. This guy also does county and city labor negotiations. The guys I have seen on the management side have always been top flight individuals.

But, if a stalemate is reached on certain issues (usually wages, benefits. etc) the contract language typically goes to fact-finding. Fact-finding is usually binding on both parties (unless in the most egregious set of circumstances) and is not typically appealable. The fact-finder can award what he deems appropriate. Ergo the term binding.

If the employer does not have the money in reserve or reachable, then the political sub-division must find it. The employer/appointing authority may reduce or eliminate services, or may choose to lay off a number of PT or FT e/e's. Land and/or equipment or tangible property may be sold. Taxes may be raised. Combinations thereof.

It's an expensive process and one which was not mandated prior to Ohio's Collective Bargaining Law, circa 1983. Both management and unions bring in their A Team, depending on the amount of wages, benefits and conditions/terms on the bargaining table.



Well my question is, if the impasse is over how many sick days, how does the arbiter decide what is "right" ?? Is it a matter of what the agency can afford to pay ?? So in our school districts for example...where they will have to cut services like bussing, and cut the sports, how can they say they can afford to pay for 15 sick days ?? Or for instance the county sherrifs office, which will be laying off 6 road deputies in january.

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:13 pm
In an impasse, the arbitrator will make an award based upon a number of factors, including but not limited to past practices, same or similar contracts with same of similar political subdivisions, etc. Sometimes, it's done based also on instinct on what the arbitrator believes is fair.
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:19 pm
Tweed Ring wrote:
In an impasse, the arbitrator will make an award based upon a number of factors, including but not limited to past practices, same or similar contracts with same of similar political subdivisions, etc. Sometimes, it's done based also on instinct on what the arbitrator believes is fair.


So bottom line, barring something like SB5 that lowers the maximum allowed sick days, if they have 15 paid sick days and 3 paid personal days, they are going to get to keep them if it goes to arbitration ?? The most liberal districts in Ohio ratcheted the sick days up to the state maximum, and give some of them as many as FOUR personal days in addition...then using the "similar subdivisions" angle everybody got it.

Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:49 pm
willbird wrote:
Tweed Ring wrote:
In an impasse, the arbitrator will make an award based upon a number of factors, including but not limited to past practices, same or similar contracts with same of similar political subdivisions, etc. Sometimes, it's done based also on instinct on what the arbitrator believes is fair.


So bottom line, barring something like SB5 that lowers the maximum allowed sick days, if they have 15 paid sick days and 3 paid personal days, they are going to get to keep them if it goes to arbitration ?? The most liberal districts in Ohio ratcheted the sick days up to the state maximum, and give some of them as many as FOUR personal days in addition...then using the "similar subdivisions" angle everybody got it.

Bill


Barring any legislation which would have a negative impact on paid sick days, said language memorialized in the labor agreement, the bargaining unit will keep those paid days.
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Post subject: Re: A Response to the Recent Elections & the Canton Cop Unio
Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:50 am
Tweed Ring wrote:
willbird wrote:
Tweed Ring wrote:
In an impasse, the arbitrator will make an award based upon a number of factors, including but not limited to past practices, same or similar contracts with same of similar political subdivisions, etc. Sometimes, it's done based also on instinct on what the arbitrator believes is fair.


So bottom line, barring something like SB5 that lowers the maximum allowed sick days, if they have 15 paid sick days and 3 paid personal days, they are going to get to keep them if it goes to arbitration ?? The most liberal districts in Ohio ratcheted the sick days up to the state maximum, and give some of them as many as FOUR personal days in addition...then using the "similar subdivisions" angle everybody got it.

Bill


Barring any legislation which would have a negative impact on paid sick days, said language memorialized in the labor agreement, the bargaining unit will keep those paid days.


So ramping up pay and befits is a two way street. The best we can hope for is to freeze the pay until the two combined reach sane levels. What a crock of peanut butter. I guess we taxpayers need to unionize, and get some things locked into contract that cannot be undone, not ever.

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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