Best Ar for when SHTF...

Eugene Stoner's ubiquitous Black Rifle, the AR-15 has become
the Modern symbol of the right of the individual to be armed
with an effective rifle capable of Defending Liberty. Discuss anything
related to the AR15 and other arms of this nature herein

Moderator: KnightOfTheOldeCode

crb
Posts: 1004
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:09 pm

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by crb » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:32 am

What are your opinions on the piston AR's? If I could get a heavy barrel with a side folding stock I could combine my two ARs into one nice one and and acog maybe.
Image

User avatar
WileyCoyote
Moderator
Posts: 5665
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by WileyCoyote » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:06 pm

i'm skeptical of the piston ones,... not sure if the kinks have been worked out (and by whom), ..and many are wary of the claims it's a "better" system for the AR platform than DI..
NRA Endowment
GOA Life
SAF Life
Buckeye Firearms Assoc
Ohioans for Concealed Carry
Oregon Firearms Federation
Maryland Shall Issue
Colorado Second Amendment Assoc

AaronM

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by AaronM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:11 pm

OmGoodness!

Are you all crazy!? Every1 knows if the zombie appoco happens its all about machettes, fuel, and ignition. Oh ... and the most important thing ... keep your mouth closed while slaughtering them ..... dont want to get the shat in yuour mouth you know ... just gross if anything .... Jesh .... *sarcasm*

Oh and just to keep on topic .... any rifle that shoots is the best one when the world flips upside down. Best to be in a bunker running drones. *puts on a tinfoil hat & a copper thong* Dont judge me! It helps with reception.

PS: There is no such thing as an AR ... there are only rifles, neiy on the assault unless used in an illegal activity to assault a free person/citizen.

User avatar
Ranger 230
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: Southern Ohio
Contact:

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by Ranger 230 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:18 pm

WileyCoyote wrote:i'm skeptical of the piston ones,... not sure if the kinks have been worked out (and by whom), ..and many are wary of the claims it's a "better" system for the AR platform than DI..
I agree DI is for my AR. Gas piston adds weight and cost, it does nothing more. To me it just makes a lean easy to handle rifle bulky. If I'm wanting to buy a gas piston rifle I'll be looking at other platforms. Here is a good read for anyone looking at a Gas Piston AR. http://www.tacticalgearmag.com/page/ar1 ... -pros-cons
Ranger 230
NRA Patron Member
”Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.”
~Benjamin Franklin

OhioGrown422
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:47 pm

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by OhioGrown422 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:05 pm

so this guy is trying very hard to convince me to buy a good ak instead of an ar. He says with my small knowledge of the inner workings of firearms that in a shtf situation a reliable ak would be better for me cause of less things going wrong. Any truth to this?

TSiWRX
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Shaker Heights/Cleveland

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by TSiWRX » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:38 pm

I only recently had my first true experience with the AK platform - prior to that, it was just S&Gs on various friends' guns. :smile: Opening it up, it is every elegant, and I can see why it has the reputation that it does. The AR does present as a bit of a magical black-box, when compared to the open guts of the AK. Heck, cycling my Saiga-12 without its dust-cover, even a newbie to firearms like me can quickly come to understand the gun's workings.

But in all honesty, I think that a modern, quality, AR using the appropriate (and appropriate amount of) lube is just as reliable. Look at the BCM "Filthy 14" as well as its sister T&E/student carbines.

Similarly, I believe that in a true protracted emergency, being the master of your weapon - instead of just a user - will be important. To be able to properly care for and troubleshoot your firearms, having the necessary spares on-hand, will be important, too. In this manner, the AR is just as well worked-out as the AK, with high-quality components readily available.
-Allen

User avatar
Ranger 230
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: Southern Ohio
Contact:

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by Ranger 230 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:31 pm

No not what I get at all. Just showing that most people feel the piston vs DI is a stay with the system the firearm was designed with.
Ranger 230
NRA Patron Member
”Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.”
~Benjamin Franklin

crb
Posts: 1004
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:09 pm

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by crb » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:45 pm

I wish I could pickup an AK are a good price too, just to have.
Image

OhioGrown422
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:47 pm

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by OhioGrown422 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:25 pm

I've been researching both rifles and it seems buying an ak in the mid price range can be risky.

crb
Posts: 1004
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:09 pm

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by crb » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:45 pm

OhioGrown422 wrote:I've been researching both rifles and it seems buying an ak in the mid price range can be risky.
The other option I'm considering is a SKS to have something I'm 762x39. I know I could get a 762x39 AR, but I was looking at AK or SKS for a different platform.
Image

User avatar
Viking
Moderator
Posts: 3401
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: WPAFB

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by Viking » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:37 am

As far as AKs go you need to spend about $800 to get anything decently accurate (Aresenal, saiga, etc ...) ...Which brings you into AR base price-territory. I have shot a lot of sub-moa "stock" (i.e. no-mods) ARs, not that many "Value" AKs that can produce that type of accuracy stock.

In the US, the AR is the service rifle & LEO carbine of choice, and ammo is plentiful and reloading components are too. It is also more popular for civilian applications. I just think that while there is nothing inheriently wrong with the design of a quality AK; you just have so many more customization & upgrade options with ARs. The other clearly inferior item on an AK is the open sights - and much more challenging provisions for mounting optics.
US NAVY VETERAN
Navy Qualified Tactical Action Officer
Navy Qualified Sharpshooter (Pistol, Rifle)
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor

"Vigilia aeterna est pretium libertatis"

crb
Posts: 1004
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:09 pm

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by crb » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:39 pm

Viking wrote:As far as AKs go you need to spend about $800 to get anything decently accurate (Aresenal, saiga, etc ...) ...Which brings you into AR base price-territory. I have shot a lot of sub-moa "stock" (i.e. no-mods) ARs, not that many "Value" AKs that can produce that type of accuracy stock.

In the US, the AR is the service rifle & LEO carbine of choice, and ammo is plentiful and reloading components are too. It is also more popular for civilian applications. I just think that while there is nothing inheriently wrong with the design of a quality AK; you just have so many more customization & upgrade options with ARs. The other clearly inferior item on an AK is the open sights - and much more challenging provisions for mounting optics.
How to you feel about the Sks platform. Im more wanting to fill a caliber void I have.
Image

User avatar
Viking
Moderator
Posts: 3401
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: WPAFB

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by Viking » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:44 pm

The 7.62X39MM cartridge is an intermediate cartridge - personally, I'd standardize on 5.56X45 & 7.62X51 to reach out and touch someone. IMHO there is no reason to get an SKS if you are going the AR - route, I'd rather save up and get the AK or preferably a M1A or FAL chambered in 7.62X51. No need to have too many rifle calibers in military pattern rifles - best to standardize, stockpile rounds and reload for 1 or 2 calibers.
US NAVY VETERAN
Navy Qualified Tactical Action Officer
Navy Qualified Sharpshooter (Pistol, Rifle)
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor

"Vigilia aeterna est pretium libertatis"

crb
Posts: 1004
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:09 pm

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by crb » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:51 pm

Viking wrote:The 7.62X39MM cartridge is an intermediate cartridge - personally, I'd standardize on 5.56X45 & 7.62X51 to reach out and touch someone. IMHO there is no reason to get an SKS if you are going the AR - route, I'd rather save up and get the AK or preferably a M1A or FAL chambered in 7.62X51. No need to have too many rifle calibers in military pattern rifles - best to standardize, stockpile rounds and reload for 1 or 2 calibers.
You make a good point. More than likely if someone is trying to trade 762x39 I'm a tinfoil hay situation, they will trade the rifle too. I've been looking at M1A's and get are pricey. I've talked to a number of guys that aren't impressed with the newer ones.
Image

User avatar
Viking
Moderator
Posts: 3401
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: WPAFB

Re: Best Ar for when SHTF...

Post by Viking » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:40 pm

Though I think a SHTF scenario every being played out in CONUS is mostly a survivalist fantasy I still strongly believe in general emergency preparedness. It is hard to imagine a The Road type of scenario - as history doesn't typically bear this out. As societyies collapse they generally become less specialized as people return to the land - over generations - and become more self-sufficient (Dark-ages, fall of the roan empire, etc..) That being said, even our own frontier here in OH had very dangerous and lawless times during settlement & Shawnee Indian conflicts was frought with danger for anyone on the roads.

If you have to Bug-out I think the best choice rifle would an AR with a few mini parts kits that weigh almost nothing. The ammo is 1/2 the weight & size of 7.62. The weapon can be easily stripped and cleaned & field expediantly repaired. There is a limit to how much gear you can carry even if you are in very good shape. In that case - the highest priority in gear for me would be relative weight.

Milspec gear isn't always the best for Bug-out or civilian use as most combat infantry are trained to fight mounted in Strykers, Humvees, Bradleys, etc.. - so they don't have to carry it on their backs 100% of the time. It is designed to be soldier-proof first, battle hardened and lightweight is somewhere down the list of the joint force commander's gear priorities. I think that modern lightweight, hi-tech back-packing gear is better for this hypothetical scenario - cost is about the same.

Also, with normal backpacking & multi-use outdoors gear you can actually use it in a non-SHTF scenario for recreational hiking without looking like a militia-member, tacti-cool, Swat-team wanabe that scares the sheeple out on the trails. In SHTF, add a magazine chest-rig a few more critical Items to the pack and a light weight AR and you are in business. (I am assuming you would already hike with your CCW sidearm... :P )

These are just of a few of my thoughts on the practical aspects of this topic. I have spent way too much time researching this topic in the past and hope to have you avoid the pitfall spending to much of your internet time on this time-sink ... :ewink:
US NAVY VETERAN
Navy Qualified Tactical Action Officer
Navy Qualified Sharpshooter (Pistol, Rifle)
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor

"Vigilia aeterna est pretium libertatis"

Post Reply