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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:46 am
Lucky1 wrote:
jrohio wrote:
The recoil for a .45 isn't necessarily less than a .40 most people feel the recoil from a .40 is "snappier". I don't know how to define snappier but if you fire both I think you'll get it.
I prefer a .45 for what it's worth.

Thanks for the info. I don't have to shoot a .40 to "get it" now. I know exactly what you are referring to. Bought a Glock 36 and the recoil is far better and easier to manage than on any of my 9mm! Don't get me wrong, I still love my little Ruger SR9c....but the Glock....there's NO comparison. Mr. Ruger is tucked away safely in the gun safe getting a break from EDC.


Good for you Lucky1! In the event you shop for another Glock in 9mm to complement your 9mm collection I think you will have the same experience with a 9mm Glock versus your other 9mms. It's not so much the round as it is the gun firing it in some cases. The Glock is proof of that.

Keeping true to the thread I chose a Glock 22 for versatility. During the ammo shortage .40S&W was still on the shelves. Through some research I discovered that a Glock 22 could also be altered to accommodate .22LR, .357 SIG and even 9mm with simple parts swaps. They will feed everything but solid lead reliably and a simple aftermarket barrel swap would allow me to shoot pure lead if I want to.

My reasons for choosing the Glock go way beyond that but my reasons for a .40 S&W were settled when I discovered it's real world tests. The 9mm is left in the dust and the .45 doesn't look so special anymore.

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:52 am
I just stuck an Apex "Hard Sear" and spring kit into the M&P40C. About $90, but it makes the gun feel like my old S&W revolvers....

(Almost too light a trigger.)

The online videos are adequate, and if you have a roll pin punch and keep your head about you, it's not a big job....

IAC, after playing with the two .40's on the range for some months, I still find the .40 snappier than the .45, which means that (for me) there's more apparent recoil, but neither is difficult for an experienced shooter. And I still wouldn't give a .40 to a newbie until he/she has put a couple mags through an all-steel 1911. (People think the .45 is hard to shoot. They need convincing.... OTOH, my wife fired one the last time I got her onto a range, back about 1980, and didn't know that. Not a problem for her at all with range loads. A bit of a handful in a lightweight gun, but that's the worst of it.)

The little M&P40C is a tad nastier, but not something you'd put into the safe and never look at again :) .... If you can shoot about any 1911, the full size .40 isn't enough worse to put you off, IMHO, and the little ones not all that tougher.

(I still haven't had my daughter shoot it. She never seems to be in town when I'm available to hit the range.)

IMHO, anybody can shoot the M&P9 in any incarnation - full size or teensy - and about anything else in that size range. The itsy 9mm's may be a little much, like those ultra-lightweight .357's that new shooters seem to get sold.... The new shooter probably should avoid the smaller Tupperguns (or anything in a 1911 smaller than "Officer's") but would likely find a .45 tolerable. .40's, IMHO, are a tad more, and, again, might be best for the new shooter in a larger gun, but aren't all that more difficult than the .45. All three ought to do the job.

If you're buying revolvers, the .38Spl probably is the only way to go, and I'd stick to steel guns with 3" barrels as a minimum. Even that's a little light for new shooters, but the longer barrel will make the experience more pleasant. Just harder to pocket/purse carry. A 3 or 4" K-frame would be ideal (the Ruger SP101 or whatever that's called is a good choice, too). The K's are a tad big, but are a great nightstand gun, and IMHO anybody can shoot one. IMHO, too, .357's aren't worth the trouble. The little bitty ones are a handful, and that part probably negates any advantage that the caliber generates.

My understanding is that the original 10mm was a real handful, but the FBI agents who were supposed to carry it ran into all kinds of problems with them due to extreme recoil and such. The .40 supposedly was the result - a wicked little round that most agents could handle easily.

The .40 has one advantage over the .45, IMHO.... You can get 'em (double-stackers) with a few more rounds without increasing the bulk too much, and the spare magazine isn't bigger than your Volkswagen.... Even a single-stacker will give you a couple more rounds....

It really boils down to what you like.... And maybe avoiding "magic pills" or High Points :D....

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:16 am
Buckeye Dan wrote:
Lucky1 wrote:
jrohio wrote:
The recoil for a .45 isn't necessarily less than a .40 most people feel the recoil from a .40 is "snappier". I don't know how to define snappier but if you fire both I think you'll get it.
I prefer a .45 for what it's worth.

Thanks for the info. I don't have to shoot a .40 to "get it" now. I know exactly what you are referring to. Bought a Glock 36 and the recoil is far better and easier to manage than on any of my 9mm! Don't get me wrong, I still love my little Ruger SR9c....but the Glock....there's NO comparison. Mr. Ruger is tucked away safely in the gun safe getting a break from EDC.


Good for you Lucky1! In the event you shop for another Glock in 9mm to complement your 9mm collection I think you will have the same experience with a 9mm Glock versus your other 9mms. It's not so much the round as it is the gun firing it in some cases. The Glock is proof of that.

Keeping true to the thread I chose a Glock 22 for versatility. During the ammo shortage .40S&W was still on the shelves. Through some research I discovered that a Glock 22 could also be altered to accommodate .22LR, .357 SIG and even 9mm with simple parts swaps. They will feed everything but solid lead reliably and a simple aftermarket barrel swap would allow me to shoot pure lead if I want to.

My reasons for choosing the Glock go way beyond that but my reasons for a .40 S&W were settled when I discovered it's real world tests. The 9mm is left in the dust and the .45 doesn't look so special anymore.

I certainly do have the feeling I will be buying another Glock. As I said in another post, my wife certainly prefers the way the Glock shoots versus any of our other guns. I may have to buy one to keep her from claiming mine! :lol: It might be a .40 S&W, or it could be another 9mm...who knows. All I DO know, at this point, is that this gun (despite the larger caliber) is the hands down favorite in our house. I REALLY wish I would have bought this gun a long time ago...it would have actually saved me money, even though it cost more than any of the other ones I have.

Ken

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:39 pm
For what it's worth, during my Concealed Carry class, one of the instructors read us a magazine article (sorry, I forget which) which was about a survey of what calibers are being used by law enforcement agencies and police departments today. 40 S&W was the most common.

From there it went .357 Sig, .45 ACP, .45 GAP, and then in fifth place was 9mm.

So are the cops abandoning 9mm in droves, or was it never really as popular as it seemed?

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:32 pm
BornLib wrote:
For what it's worth, during my Concealed Carry class, one of the instructors read us a magazine article (sorry, I forget which) which was about a survey of what calibers are being used by law enforcement agencies and police departments today. 40 S&W was the most common.

From there it went .357 Sig, .45 ACP, .45 GAP, and then in fifth place was 9mm.

So are the cops abandoning 9mm in droves, or was it never really as popular as it seemed?


In my opinion 9mm has always been a pansy, European, humane, just enough round. From a combat perspective it will accomplish the job and with it's lighter weight more rounds can be carried. The American way is to launch big fat honkin hunks of lead capable of killing the horse you rode in on...And you too for that matter. 40 S&W is that sweet spot where weight and performance meet. We're smart enough to recognize it. NATO and the rest of the world...not so much.

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:33 am
Buckeye Dan wrote:
BornLib wrote:
For what it's worth, during my Concealed Carry class, one of the instructors read us a magazine article (sorry, I forget which) which was about a survey of what calibers are being used by law enforcement agencies and police departments today. 40 S&W was the most common.

From there it went .357 Sig, .45 ACP, .45 GAP, and then in fifth place was 9mm.

So are the cops abandoning 9mm in droves, or was it never really as popular as it seemed?


In my opinion 9mm has always been a pansy, European, humane, just enough round. From a combat perspective it will accomplish the job and with it's lighter weight more rounds can be carried. The American way is to launch big fat honkin hunks of lead capable of killing the horse you rode in on...And you too for that matter. 40 S&W is that sweet spot where weight and performance meet. We're smart enough to recognize it. NATO and the rest of the world...not so much.

You my want to rethink your 9mm comment in light of the Arizona incident that took place today. The gunman used a Glock 19 and there are 6 dead. MHO.

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:27 am
A 9 works more than fine..........

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:56 am
color of law wrote:
You my want to rethink your 9mm comment in light of the Arizona incident that took place today. The gunman used a Glock 19 and there are 6 dead. MHO.

May they rest in peace.

col:

Amen....

But (putting Mod hat on for just a minute) maybe we ought to let that Arizona incident pass a little longer and see what else develops.

(I hate to add, but it now appears that his target survived....)

Mod hat back off, and back to topic, IMHO, while about anybody can shoot a 9mm, the .40 may be slightly more effective for those who can handle it, without too many of the drawbacks of the .45ACP. IMHO, too, most people can train up to either, but in a full size gun it's almost the same as a 9mm. And in a smaller gun (even though I couldn't stand the PPS40, but love an M&P40C - the PPS40 has design issues that make it far less comfortable to shoot than it needs to be), you get almost as comfortable a shooter in a J-frame-sized package.

You don't get the super-mini that a 9mm can be built into, but remember that most of these .40's seem to be going in as Glock replacements, for "Service" guns - "Full Size" (whether or not they're replacing a Glock), and are probably replacing a 9mm "Service" gun because somebody got sold on 'em, and maybe realized that a .40 would be better in the field than a 9mm.... The .40 is also pretty close the .357 in general (let's not argue about the ballistics) and may be allowing some of these administrators to phase out .357 Magnums, too, for Politically Correct reasons....

If I were king, the older all-metal S&W semi's in .40S&W or .45ACP would be my choice for "service" guns, but the Tupperguns are half the price, and probably nearly as reliable. LE Admin types like to save a buck - makes it easier to buy better take-home cars for themselves.

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:02 pm
SMMAssociates wrote:
...Mod hat back off, and back to topic, IMHO, while about anybody can shoot a 9mm, the .40 may be slightly more effective for those who can handle it, without too many of the drawbacks of the .45ACP. IMHO, too, most people can train up to either, but in a full size gun it's almost the same as a 9mm. And in a smaller gun (even though I couldn't stand the PPS40, but love an M&P40C - the PPS40 has design issues that make it far less comfortable to shoot than it needs to be), you get almost as comfortable a shooter in a J-frame-sized package.

You don't get the super-mini that a 9mm can be built into, but remember that most of these .40's seem to be going in as Glock replacements, for "Service" guns - "Full Size" (whether or not they're replacing a Glock), and are probably replacing a 9mm "Service" gun because somebody got sold on 'em, and maybe realized that a .40 would be better in the field than a 9mm.... The .40 is also pretty close the .357 in general (let's not argue about the ballistics) and may be allowing some of these administrators to phase out .357 Magnums, too, for Politically Correct reasons....

If I were king, the older all-metal S&W semi's in .40S&W or .45ACP would be my choice for "service" guns, but the Tupperguns are half the price, and probably nearly as reliable. LE Admin types like to save a buck - makes it easier to buy better take-home cars for themselves.

Regards,

In most cases size doesn't really matter. I have never heard of a case of the possible recipient of a gunshot to inquire as to the caliber size so he could brace himself for the sudden impact should it occur.

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:48 pm
col:

The admin types who buy these things by the case are easily impressed - the bigger .40 sounds like they're doing something to protect the troops, and, for some reason, doesn't get the "public opinion" hit that a .357 or .45 can....

IMHO, there's a major issue in the need for a follow-up shot. It just doesn't seem as likely with the larger caliber.... Which is good 'cause it's harder....

A good solid hit with any reasonable caliber (i.e., 9mm and above :D) ought to do the job. It's what happens when you need the follow-up....

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:01 pm
Have to admit, I only skimmed this thread, but IMO, after shot placement, .45 acp is king of SD rounds. Easy recoil, no expansion needed and on & on.

If I feel like it later I may put up some links on some terminal ballistics not from gel tests but real life accounts of 45 killing people. Chuck Taylor being one of them. He gave 5 guys 1 shot each of 45 acp FMJ in the chest and they where dropped and DRT (dead right there). The guy he popped with the 9mm & also the guy with the 357 each was able to keep fighting. IIRC the second 9mm hit the guys spine & dropped him.

Out of the 7 guys he shot dead with chest shots, only the 5 hit with the 45 couldn't fight back. Here is his account http://www.chucktayloramericansmallarms ... power.html

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:16 pm
This thread was a great find for me. I just purchased a Bersa Thunder .40 cal and this section answered a lot of my questions in regards to the round. Won't be able to pick it up till next Wed with the waiting period but I had shot the .380 version which was quite snappy so if this round is somewhat similar I think it will do well for my EDC.

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:43 pm
Adam wrote:
This thread was a great find for me. I just purchased a Bersa Thunder .40 cal and this section answered a lot of my questions in regards to the round. Won't be able to pick it up till next Wed with the waiting period but I had shot the .380 version which was quite snappy so if this round is somewhat similar I think it will do well for my EDC.


.380 is weaker then 9mm

.380 < 9mm < .40

the thing is it depends on what you shoot it in.. compact/subcompact or lightweight guns will have more recoil to them..

the larger heavier guns soak up the recoil better.. so even though .380 is'nt considered a high powered round it can be a handful in smaller guns.

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:34 pm
Thanks for the info Joe, I may be in for a surprise then since the Bersa are relatively small guns to begin with. Either way looks good in my growing collection. =)

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Post subject: Re: Why I Chose 40 S&W
Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:44 pm
Adam:

I don't really know the Bersa, but the .380 often appears in guns where the barrel is fixed to the frame, and blowback (gas pressure from firing) is used to cycle the slide. Those seem to hurt more in smaller guns - like the Walther PPK and PPK/S. Once you get into guns that move the barrel around a bit, more recoil is absorbed by things other than your hand, and they just feel better, regardless of the size & weight of the gun.

I also found that putting Pachmayr grips on a PPK/S helped alot.... Still not something to shoot for fun, at least for me, but you don't have the urge to visit the ER after a few rounds.

All the guys I've run into with the Bersas, btw, seem to like them.

Regards,

Stu

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