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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:30 am
Ken45 wrote:
willbird wrote:
When I see strange stuff I dig a bit deeper......


I do that too....and it usually just gets deeper in confusion :( I think I spend more time checking loads and comparing data than actually reloading! The more sources I check, the deeper the disagreements.

Lyman has some data where one 230gr LSWC has a higher starting charge than another one has a max load! Of course, they are slightly different profile bullets. Of course, none of their bullets match what I'm trying to load anyway.... As I said, more confusion.

Ken


But PSI vs CUP......................BINGO :-). The higher the pressure I think the simpler it gets...these century old ctg loafing along at 15,000 cup tend to be more oddballs than ctg nearly as old cranking along at higher pressures.

Bill

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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:42 am
Craziness, but I survived Wednesday night's tests....

I ended up loading some 231 with the bullet seated well back into the case. The usual (maybe 0.010") shoulder out of the case over 4.7gr of 231. Couple of misfeeds, but nothing exciting. IMHO, that'd be easy enough to work out, without any problems if I seat the bullet out just a smidge more. OAL is very short....

I was going to try 4.2gr of WST (with the same bullet seating), but got lazy and just refilled the powder measure with WST to see what it'd throw before mucking with it. 4.4gr.... I'd planned on testing 4.2gr, 4.4gr, and 4.6gr, figuring that the extra pressure the powder is supposed to generate would put that top limit in.

With the press already set at 4.4gr, I loaded up a large handful. Probably not the best idea, but it was getting late....

Again, same OAL-related feed issues a couple of time, but it worked fine, and the pressures seemed to be well in the range I expected for "safe" - no split cases :D, primers look normal, etc. Soft "push" type recoil, too. Feels more or less like 231 at 4.7gr. Becka shot off a bunch of it after I was satisfied that it wasn't going to explode or worse. The 4.7gr of 231, OTOH, seemed to be a bit snappier with that Hornady bullet than it usually is with the one I usually use. Slight indication of too much pressure - slightly flattened primers - but not enough to panic over. I shot off those. Used the Rock Island, which is slightly more solid :D. (After the initial testing, we shot the WST loads in my Para PX745EM, which is a GM clone, and not quite as solid.)

Overall, looks like a winner, but I still want to try seating the ball just a smidge further out for next week's tests.

Thanks for all the info, guys. Look like I can keep on shooting for a little while :D.... Some nights we shoot more bull than bullets anyway, but Becka likes to make noise :mrgreen:, so we ran through everything I brought with us.

(I still think the powdered lubricant is Moly :D.)

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:32 pm
Supposedly Zero bullets used a mixture of graphite and wax. I wonder if you asked for an MSDS on the bullets what would be listed ?? Found some info on the web to suggest Hornady uses Rooster Jacket, which is actually a floor wax if I recall right ??

Bill

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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:47 pm
Bill:

Hm.... Maybe that's why the workshop floor is looking so good? :mrgreen:

Could be - it reminded me of Moly, but that's all I'm basing this on. At the former day job, some 40 years ago, I got involved in lubricating industrial/commercial weatherstrip (there actually are standards for how hard it is to open/close a window), and played with some lubricants, including some that were a tad exotic at the time. Moly worked fairly well, btw, but was too expensive if I recall correctly.

Might ask 'em for an MSDS.... For a while there you got an MSDS if you ordered up a gross of ballpoint pens, but that calmed down eventually.

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:53 pm
SMMAssociates wrote:
Bill:

Hm.... Maybe that's why the workshop floor is looking so good? :mrgreen:

Could be - it reminded me of Moly, but that's all I'm basing this on. At the former day job, some 40 years ago, I got involved in lubricating industrial/commercial weatherstrip (there actually are standards for how hard it is to open/close a window), and played with some lubricants, including some that were a tad exotic at the time. Moly worked fairly well, btw, but was too expensive if I recall correctly.

Might ask 'em for an MSDS.... For a while there you got an MSDS if you ordered up a gross of ballpoint pens, but that calmed down eventually.

Regards,


The best place to get the MSDS is from somebody in the UK, they must list EVERYTHING over there, so if they export then maybe they have a detailed UK MSDS ?? I used to shoot with Jerry Alberts (original owner of X-ring bullets, which became Taurus, then Alberts) brother Ray Alberts...all he would say about the lube is that it was something we were around in the shop everyday, and a lot of grease has moly in it.

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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:30 pm
Bill:

Before I got into computers at the former day job, I was in the lab. "Something we were around in the shop every day" was acetone, or MEK, or some stuff that was labeled "if this starts to smoke, evacuate the area immediately."

Used to drive one of the plant managers nuts. Especially when it did smoke :D....

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:36 pm
SMMAssociates wrote:
Bill:

Before I got into computers at the former day job, I was in the lab. "Something we were around in the shop every day" was acetone, or MEK, or some stuff that was labeled "if this starts to smoke, evacuate the area immediately."

Used to drive one of the plant managers nuts. Especially when it did smoke :D....

Regards,


It has been a long time since I heard anyone mention methyl ethyl ketone (MEK). In the early 80s we used to wash our equipment with it. It also worked great at getting the grease out of the cracks on your hands. Used to just about bath in PD-680 until the military banned both of them from everyday use.

Stu, You come up with some good ones; I had to look up canard when you used it because I couldn't figure out what a city in Canada or a little wing on an airplane had to do with a story about guns.
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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:11 pm
SMMAssociates wrote:
Bill:

Before I got into computers at the former day job, I was in the lab. "Something we were around in the shop every day" was acetone, or MEK, or some stuff that was labeled "if this starts to smoke, evacuate the area immediately."

Used to drive one of the plant managers nuts. Especially when it did smoke :D....

Regards,


When my dad had his shop he had an employee who had a drum of MEK at home...he was very generous with it, anything that had been painted with say Krylon would be down to the original finish if you have it a brief dip in MEK. One part time job I had in HS we used a lot of methylne chloride...I snuck some into the lawnmower there at the shop knowing it would not burn, well it ate ALL the plastic in the carburetor.

Bill

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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:04 am
Dinstar:

I think I'm over-educated :D....

(I thought that everybody knew that a "canard" also referred to a "bad story". The aircraft reference seems to come from a control surface that's not quite necessary. That they're useful is another story :D.

Bill:

We had a chemist at the former day job who was a little nuts. Probably from getting shot at while swimming a river trying to get out of the former Soviet Union. One of our vice presidents asked him for some solvent to un-stick a favorite ball point pen. Turned it into spaghetti..... I knew enough to respect the stuff, but it was kind of handy.

Definitely didn't like most plastics, but it was handy for cleaning extrusion dies and similar parts.

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:41 am
SMMAssociates wrote:
Dinstar:

I think I'm over-educated :D....

(I thought that everybody knew that a "canard" also referred to a "bad story". The aircraft reference seems to come from a control surface that's not quite necessary. That they're useful is another story :D.

Bill:

We had a chemist at the former day job who was a little nuts. Probably from getting shot at while swimming a river trying to get out of the former Soviet Union. One of our vice presidents asked him for some solvent to un-stick a favorite ball point pen. Turned it into spaghetti..... I knew enough to respect the stuff, but it was kind of handy.

Definitely didn't like most plastics, but it was handy for cleaning extrusion dies and similar parts.

Regards,


Over educated and common sense might be a good thing. At one past job the foreman caught a guy literally up to his elbows in Xylene, in an open tank that held about 20 gallons, half full, rinsing aluminum castings....with a lit cig in his mouth.

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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:02 pm
Bill:

Wheee..... That would have been a big one!

I once walked into a burning building, though, without any safety gear. Flashover wasn't likely, and that part - industrial building - was just a little smoky. We were trying to find the keys to a car garaged in the building, and couldn't. The car survived just fine, but the nominal owner wouldn't drive it - he smelled the fire in there, and that was that.

(He also made me get rid of a printer that had been in the fire. Again, undamaged, but he didn't want the smell near his office. I put it back in Shipping....)

Probably should have stayed out of that building, but the FD didn't try to stop me :D.... Young(er) and foolish at the time.

You get older, and you learn.... A buddy of mine (with the City PD) used to do all kinds of semi-insane things. One morning he realized that he really had a reason to live longer, and quit doing that stuff. Otherwise, he'd be on a memorial wall someplace with "don't do that" under his picture....

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:07 pm
When I was in Strategic Air Command (SAC), our shops had painted red lines on the floor for smoking areas. At one base one smoking area was literally 12 inches from where we serviced liquid oxygen carts. I'd be working on a LOX cart and people would be smoking 12 inches away. Half of the other bay was for was used for fuel bowsers. I can imagine where that bays smoking area was.

Canard isn't a word commonly used. I enjoy when people use words like that; it provides a learning ability. Over-education isn't a bad thing if you have the commonsense to go with it. I've met and worked plenty of people with a lot of education but couldn't apply it. The only thing worse are the ones with a little education but think they know everything.
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Post subject: Re: Confused as usual....
Post Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:49 pm
Dinstar:

Lox & Bagels, I understand. LOX and smoking, OTOH.... :mrgreen:

A friend of mine was a senior Officer at a PD in New England. Can't think of which. His view was that as you got promoted, they'd suck out more and more of your brain. I think he may have been correct - when he discovered Windows, he vanished from the message board for a couple months. Never made Chief, although he was more than qualified and ready. The PTB felt that they wouldn't be able to control him. Probably true.... There was no truth to the rumor that he kept a Patrolman locked in a closet to prepare his reports. He did let the guy out once in a while :D....

Which goes to the point of exactly who picked those smoking areas.... Kinda like the way they'd cordon off smoking areas in a restaurant, ignoring the effect of air movement. I quit about 20 years ago, but it doesn't bother me when somebody around me is smoking. (Well, maybe while I'm eating, or in a closed car.)

Regards,

Stu

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