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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:00 am
I don't have an alloy hardness tester, I'm just be able to slightly mar the edge of the bullet with my thumbnail.
I had some ingots of alloy which someone made and I mixed it with soft lead until I came up with what I thought was hard enough. The rifling makes sharp, deep indents in the bullet; there is no sign of shearing.
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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:05 am
Win94ae wrote:
Yes, I am using the Lyman 311284 mold with a gas check, no leading using 45% Gulf Wax, 45% petroleum jelly, and 10% STP oil treatment. I had used what little H414 that I had, so I didn't get to do any serious load development, just seeing how fast I could get them without issue in my strongest 30-06.

Hopefully, I'll be buying some H4350 next time I get to town, then I'll do some proper load development. I really don't like H414 because of hang-fires with lightish loads, but that was the only powder in the store at that time, that my 30-06s could use.

I've had good luck with velocities above 2200 with my 30-30, and figured the 30-06s would do well also. Hopefully, I'll be able to find suitable powder to try.


I have used quite a bit of H414 in a 284 win case necked to 6mm, 53.0 grains is not a "light" load (maximum load with a 75 grain bullet) but it still required a magnum primer in that instance to not get hangfires.

How much H414 were you using ?? Lyman does not show it in 30-06 with that bullet......really they do not seem to use it in 30-06 at all, most of their loads cast bullet loads for 30-06 seem to be the "traditional" type loads using faster burning powders....and achieving modest (where most people will be successful) velocities.

Hogdon shows H414 with all bullets weights and I see nothing "alarming" there, just no cast bullet data.

That is a pretty successful leap into cast bullet shooting with making your own lube too :-).

Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:34 am
FWIW IMHO the issue with high velocity cast bullet loads is not generally leading, it is accuracy.

Some feel that the typically long bore riding bullets, or any fairly long cast bullet may bend when part of it is hanging out of the muzzle but some is still in the bore yet.

Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:01 am
bill

i have had issues with nose slump ( very close to what you describe above) in the softer alloys i use for my bpcr rifles when using the long nose bore riders , but the nose slump has always happened inside the barrel at ignition i am guessing as rifling is usualy evident on one side of the nose and not the other .. usualy a good bit further up then there should be rifling .

but i havent ever had any of those issues with a harder alloy such as plain old wheel weights .
and never with smokeless .
i do remember a discussion on the cast boolits forum about the long bullets bending when using very long and heavy for caliber bullets ... i think it was a very long 6.5mm bullet that was being discussed

win94 .. i am with bill ,congrats on a very successful leap
i never put much effort into trying to make em shoot that fast , i am just a paper puncher so there is no need on my end .
but if you do want the higher velocities imr 3031 or varget might be your friend here ... i'd personaly lean towards varget myself
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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:07 am
stephen45-70 wrote:
bill

i have had issues with nose slump ( very close to what you describe above) in the softer alloys i use for my bpcr rifles when using the long nose bore riders , but the nose slump has always happened inside the barrel at ignition i am guessing as rifling is usualy evident on one side of the nose and not the other .. usualy a good bit further up then there should be rifling .

but i havent ever had any of those issues with a harder alloy such as plain old wheel weights .
and never with smokeless .
i do remember a discussion on the cast boolits forum about the long bullets bending when using very long and heavy for caliber bullets ... i think it was a very long 6.5mm bullet that was being discussed

win94 .. i am with bill ,congrats on a very successful leap
i never put much effort into trying to make em shoot that fast , i am just a paper puncher so there is no need on my end .
but if you do want the higher velocities imr 3031 or varget might be your friend here ... i'd personaly lean towards varget myself


Yep it was the 6.5's....they referred to it as the bullet "getting dizzy".

My first choice when there is one even close to right is a Hogdon Extreme, so varget would get the nod. Velocity changes a LOT with the IMR's over temperature changes fairly common here in Ohio...we could see -10f to 100f easily the same year :-).

Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:55 pm
I was using 49gr of H414, around 47gr and lower I was getting hang-fires.

Yes, Varget is my favorite powder, and if there ever is any on the shelves again, Ill get some.

I was wanting to get all 3 of my 30-06s to shoot this bullet with about the same load, if not the same load, and the 03 was experiencing overpressure signs, so I wanted an even slower burning powder.

Thank you!
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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:11 pm
Win94ae wrote:
I was using 49gr of H414, around 47gr and lower I was getting hang-fires.

Yes, Varget is my favorite powder, and if there ever is any on the shelves again, Ill get some.

I was wanting to get all 3 of my 30-06s to shoot this bullet with about the same load, if not the same load, and the 03 was experiencing overpressure signs, so I wanted an even slower burning powder.

Thank you!


Ya an 03 or an 03a3 is NOT a good gun to explore higher pressure loadings............eeeekk. I look for the high3est velocity with the lowest pressure if I can find it :-).

When I started playing with 22-250 I sought to buy EVERY powder in the Lyman manual at that time...would have been 1988 or so, and snagged a lot of them. ...I also inherited my dads powder stash. There used to be an old guy at the Lima gun shows that sold powder, he marked it up 3% or $3 whichever was LESS, he went once a month to pickup powder, primers, and shot...so heck I was single and living at home, making decent money...so I'd buy 5 or more 1 lb cans every gun show and stash them away. Another guy took over from him but only lasted a few years, I got quite a few 8 lbers from him, I now advocate buying powders ONLY in 8's if it is a mainstream powder like Varget that you can use for something sooner or later.

RE7 in some calibers is an almost magic powder, it truly does give the highest velocity with the lowest pressure, or a low and predictable pressure anyway in straight walled cases big enough to use it.

Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:40 pm
i went threw the powder craze .. sometimes the experimenting bug hits us all and we just have to see if that magic powder is out there . i still have 25 or so orphaned powders waiting to be used
after 25 years of being a dedicated cast bullet shooter i have learned i only need a few .
2400 has been my best friend with cast bullets ... it just plain works , if you want to shoot cast in a rifle from pipsqueak loads to moderately fast you will find it hard to beat for versatility .
everything i load cast in bigger then .224 dia now gets 2400 .
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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:15 pm
Win94ae wrote:

Yes, Varget is my favorite powder, and if there ever is any on the shelves again, Ill get some.


I'm not sure where you live, but if you are in SW OH:

I just picked up a lb of Varget at Olde English Outfitters, they still had plenty left ... wasn't cheap though $36/lb :(

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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:37 pm
willbird wrote:
Ya an 03 or an 03a3 is NOT a good gun to explore higher pressure loadings............eeeekk. I look for the high3est velocity with the lowest pressure if I can find it :-).

I figure it was less than 52,000 PSI which I don't consider "higher pressure." If I encounter the slightest sticky bolt, I consider it "overpressure," which is what I encountered.
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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:40 pm
Win94ae wrote:
willbird wrote:
Ya an 03 or an 03a3 is NOT a good gun to explore higher pressure loadings............eeeekk. I look for the high3est velocity with the lowest pressure if I can find it :-).

I figure it was less than 52,000 PSI which I don't consider "higher pressure." If I encounter the slightest sticky bolt, I consider it "overpressure," which is what I encountered.


There is quite a bit of fairly solid study that shows trying to see pressure signs in brass before you pass the yield strength of the brass is pretty much "weird science" and I only pass the yield strength of the brass (just to find it then back down again) in very strong guns that would survive an over pressure event gracefully.

There is a whole LOT of the case hanging out of the chamber in an 03 or an 03a3.

I do not think this load would have taken a 700 remington apart like it did this Springfield :-(.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... pringfield

Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:04 am
willbird wrote:
I do not think this load would have taken a 700 remington apart like it did this Springfield :-(.

Of course, a 1903 is simply an unlicensed Mauser without the relevant safety features - a low-numbered Springer is a collector's item in the right hands, and a potential IED in others.

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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:23 am
jabeatty wrote:
willbird wrote:
I do not think this load would have taken a 700 remington apart like it did this Springfield :-(.

Of course, a 1903 is simply an unlicensed Mauser without the relevant safety features - a low-numbered Springer is a collector's item in the right hands, and a potential IED in others.
the 1903 design s responsible for the 30-03 and 30-06 cases being very strong cases in the head area though.

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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:17 pm
willbird wrote:
... and I only pass the yield strength of the brass (just to find it then back down again) in very strong guns that would survive an over pressure event gracefully.

I don't intentionally pass the yield strength on any of my rifles.
One can only work-up to a point they find pressure signs then stop.

I can tell I'm not going to be posting here much.
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Post subject: Re: Started Casting
Post Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:22 pm
win94
i think you may have missed willbirds point and taken it wrong .
what i got from his post is your rifle is not the best for pushing the envelope .
and finding pressure signs in anything is a very ticklish enterprise , no matter how strong an action you are using . as noted above there is no one reliable sign that is going to apear and let you know to stop you have gone to far .
most times you get lucky as you did with a slightly sticky bolt . but what about when the only sign the rifle and cartridge gives you is failure .

shooting cast bullets can at times make a person take a wrong turn , it is all to easy to get complacent and think ... hey i am just shooting cast , i'll have bullet failure long before i have to worry about an over pressure event .

think about your sticky bolt for awhile ... you think it was under 52,000 psi , but you realy have no way of knowing what the real pressure is . as evidenced by what you admit is an over pressure event at what you think is still not higher pressure .. any pressure sign you do get lucky enough to find is telling you that you have already gone to far.

my momma always told me ... better safe then sorry , eyes fingers and hands dont grow back , and you can only die once .
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