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Post subject: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:45 pm
Hey, guys! Thanks in advance for letting me ask some questions on your board. As you can see from the subject line, I'm a subject of the People's Republic of NJ, but FL and VA both see me as a law abiding citizen, so they have issued me non-resident CCW permits/licenses. My wife has one from VA as well.

My wife and I are visiting Cleveland this fall to see a medical specialist at the Cleveland Clinic, so we planned on spending some of our downtime seeing different sights in Cleveland, possibly the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame, Great Lakes Brewing Company/Brewpub, the West Side Market, and the Cleveland Zoo. However, upon researching your firearm laws, it appears that every place we plan on visiting has posted "no firearm" signs, effectively nullifying our ability to carry! Is this a common theme throughout the state? If so, I guess we can still carry in our rental car while we're out there, providing we lock it up well, but is there any reason to even take it out of the car with us at any point in the trip if it's just going to be banned everywhere we go?

This sounds to me like nullification of the law via limitation. I mean, you guys still have it better than we do in NJ since we can't leave our own property with it loaded, but shall-issue doesn't sound all that great if it's limited by every establishment.

Do you guys have any advice for us?
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:15 pm
welcome kwadz!

...i'm on the opposite corner of the state, so i'm afraid I don't have inside info regarding the Cleveland area...

i'm assuming that the attractions listed are private owned, not sure about a zoo?... generally speaking, privately-owned establishments have the prerogative to post "no guns", ...i.e. private property rights... there are some statutory CPZs (i.e. no guns) which are the usual things like gov't facilities, police stations, prisons, courthouses, etc...

but all in all there are a lot a places you can carry... a CHL-holder can carry in restaurants/bars, ones where the owner hasn't posted "no guns", as long as you don't consume alcohol.. publicly owned parks, ...good for carry...

..just remember we have "duty to notify" here, ..so if you're pulled over for speeding or have another LEO encounter...

NRA Endowment
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:31 pm
IIRC, the Cleveland Zoo is posted. There's reliable information from fellow OFCCers that, at the moment, the Akron Zoo is no longer posted.

IIRC, Great Lakes Brewery is not posted, but it's been a while since I was last there (~6 months). I cannot find it mentioned on the OFCC main site "Do not patron while armed" list, either, but I'd still like someone to cross-confirm this.

The West Side Market is posted.

Overall, I've found the no-carry laws to be very similar in Ohio as it is in other Shall-Issue states in that most public venues forbid carry. In terms of private businesses, even here in the "Inner Ring" east-side suburbs, I find that, more often than not, legal concealed carry is actually not expressly forbidden.

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:58 pm
kwadz:

Welcome Aboard!

Please have a look at the sticky referenced in the "Forum Rules" masthead at the top of this page.

It's not mandatory, and may be sleep inducing....

I can't speak for Cleveland, but generally places are either posted or not :D.... You should be able to find plenty of places you can go without problems.

Under the current version of the law, "No Guns" signs on privately owned parking lots are a Civil matter, and you can ignore those signs at your pleasure. It's never been tested in court (and I'm no lawyer), but leaving a gun in your car (if you can stand it!) shouldn't be a problem.

(Schools are an exception! With a few exceptions, no guns on school property, period.)

The Clinic was posted last time I was there (quite a few years ago), but at that time it was not uniformly posted. Lots of doors without signs, etc. I wouldn't count on that, but it's not unusual for privately posted areas to be mucked up that way. Don't trust the "what sign?" defense, but if the place is privately posted, you have to really crank somebody off....

I can't advise you to break the law, but the misdemeanor postings are sort of "do you feel lucky?"....

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

יזכר לא עד פעם
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:04 am
In terms of the CCF, I would simply store my gun in the vehicle.

To have to look for signage - and even then knowingly convey the firearm into the buildings - is just a level of stress that the OP and his wife probably would rather not have to deal with, given the nature of their visit.

The main CCF campus is definitely not in a great part of town, but as with many such places (much of my undergrad and immediate post-grad years were spent at the Johns Hopkins medical campus in East Baltimore, for example), during the daylight hours, it's well-patrolled and incidents unlikely as long as one is not obviously flaunting wealth and/or dumbwalking (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28208144). If you feel uncomfortable after having come out of your vehicle and into the building, as for a security escort back to your vehicle.

Regardless, in any Ohio location, if asked to leave because of one's firearm, just do so. :)

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:51 am
Thanks for the info, guys! I did not know that about the CCF being in a bad neighborhood. These are good things to know when planning where to stay, as well.

Regarding Great Lakes, I'm a huge fan of their beer and when I emailed them to inquire about whether they're posted, this was the thread:

Quote:
From: GLBCINFO [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 12:12 PM
Subject: RE: brewpub question

*****, I have passed your message along to Restaurant management. At this time, no changes to our policy have been made.
Please feel free to contact me with additional questions.
Brittany

________________________________________
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:37 AM
To: GLBCINFO
Subject: RE: brewpub question
Brittany,

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. I’m confused as to why my wife wouldn’t be allowed to carry in your establishment if she isn’t drinking alcohol. It’s a shame because while I have really enjoyed Great Lakes beer in the past, I’m not about to endanger my family by being forced to not protect ourselves on the way to, in, and from the restaurant. Would you please pass this message to the management/ownership and see if they’ll reconsider the posted signage? Ohio’s law already prohibits consuming alcohol or being under the influence of alcohol while carry a firearm, so the only people who are affected by this signage are non-drinkers with CCW permits (who are defacto law abiding citizens based on the fact that they have CCW permits and even read the sing and follow the law). This is very disappointing. If the ownership will not reconsider, we will unfortunately be forced not to patronize the Brewpub, Great Lakes beer, and have the establishment added to the DNPWAD (Do Not Patronize While Armed Database).

Thank you for your reconsideration and please keep me updated with any changes.

Cheers!
*****
________________________________________
From: GLBCINFO [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: brewpub question

Hi *****! Thank you for your inquiry. We do have posted signage prohibiting weapons. I apologize if this causes you any inconvenience. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
Cheers!
Brittany

GLBCINFO | Customer Service Representative
2516 Market Avenue, Cleveland OH 44113
216.771.4404
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:45 pm
^ Ah, thanks for that info., in-turn. :)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cleve ... b6beb1edc5

^ The main campus of the CCF is very close to the main campus of Case Western Reserve University and University Hospitals and University Circle.

That area of town really isn't the greatest.

There's a decent number of small-time "violent" crime (armed robberies, but typically, no-one is hurt) that happens in the area, usually in late at night or the wee hours of the morning.

The Intercontinental is a good place to stay if your medical requirements make timing tough for you to get in/out of that area. Cleveland's traffic is very reasonable, and is actually laughable by other "big city" standards, but road-construction in the area have made things a bit more hectic during both the AM and PM rush-hours - not so much right where the CCF campus is, but rather, in the areas immediately surrounding. Updating your GPS program with the latest POIs for speed/red-light cameras will also help you avoid not so much the ticket (as you're from out-of-state), but just so that you can be aware of weird traffic behavior at such intersections.

Downtown, at Tower City, I prefer the Ritz over the Renaissance, even with the price-difference in-mind. I haven't tried the updated public transportation along the Euclid Corridor, and thus don't know just how long it would take you to go from Tower City to the CCF main campus - this may actually play well given traffic, and also depending on your timing for appointments.

Other nice sights in the University Circle area (just a few blocks northeast of the Clinic's campus) include the Cleveland Museum of Art ("Gallery One" is pretty cool - take your iPAD with you), the Botanical Garden, and the small Modern Art Museum at the corner of Euclid and Mayfield.

There's lots of small fast-casual eateries in that area, all within walking distance of each other, and is quite safe during the daylight hours. University Circle actually has a very nice little website that will help you navigate around the area, as it's not all immediately obvious where things are, just from the side of the street (Euclid).

L'Albatros Brasserie provides for a nice lunch or dinner in that area, or, alternatively, Table 45 at the InterContinental on the CCF campus. If you like gyros, Steve's Gyros in the West Side Market is worth standing in line for - regardless of the length of the line...but be sure you get their early enough that they don't run out, particularly if the day's nice!

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:37 am
Wow - thank you so much for all of that information!

I think we have some flexibility regarding the times of her appointments and testing, so I can stay within a reasonable drive of the campus, let's say 15 minutes or so. I can't get over how expensive all of the hotels cost in Cleveland, though! Even with Hotwire, I'm having trouble finding a decent hotel for under $130. Almost anywhere else I've ever gone, I've had no problem finding sub $100 3.5-4 star hotels with Hotwire. Is this a supply and demand thing? There's little demand to see Cleveland, but even less supply, maybe? I'm going to sit on it a few weeks and see if anything opens up. Maybe I'm looking too early.

Thanks for the tips on things to see/eat. I'll definitely make a note of it all and try to check it out!
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:00 pm
:) Glad to help. I've been in the area since '97 or so.

Cleveland is weird when it comes to things like lodging and parking. The rates you pay in the city proper are comparable to other big cities - and that's strange because Cleveland really isn't a "big city" like the way Chicago, Atlanta, or DC are.

The near-east side Suburb of Beachwood is nice. I've had various relatives stay at the Homewood Suites, Residence Inn, Hampton Inn, as well as the Cleveland Marriott East, and they were all happy with their respective experiences. Each are within walking distance to various eateries (these tend to be of the commercial-chain-franchise nature, though [the Hyde Park Prime Steakhouse is a standout: it's costly, but the 50-day dry-aged bone-in ribeye is just incredible]). But if you stay there (or I should say "here," as that's pretty close to where I am in Shaker Heights), budget in a good half-hour for rush-hour appointments at the CCF main campus (this is via local surface streets, which typically flow very reasonably).

The good thing about this location is that it's close to the highway, so that can make your trip in as well as trip home a bit less hectic. Then again, depending on where you decide to stay downtown, it could be just as easy to hop on the highway, too. :)

I'm sadly not nearly as familiar with the west-side suburbs, but there, you typically face a worse commute into and out of the city via highway during peak periods than the near-eastern suburbs.

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:58 pm
TSiWRX wrote:
IIRC, the Cleveland Zoo is posted.


The West Side Market is posted.


Down here the Zoo purports to be quasi-government/school. Tax levies are put on the ballot for them sometimes, so the government part may be in some manner correct. MAYBE, but by my reckoning not outside the buildings. In my opinion the "school" thing is a sham and cop-out. Because there are student-employees used there as part timers, they claim the whole darn place including the parking lots is a school premises. I tend to call bollocks on that but don't have any bored, self made millionaire litigating attorney friends who want to take this on for nothing, among my list of friends.

Seems that I recall the West Side Market up your way as being partially propped-up...er, I mean partially funded by the city of Cleveland. Down here in Cincinnati, the Findlay Market sure is that way, they'd have gone broke eleventy-seven times by now without the municipal handouts...er, help. But, best I can tell that only makes going armed inside the buildings a no-no, not walking around and shopping on the outside. I grab some great coffee and particularly good cheese from a couple of those outside vendors, and more than once in OC mode. Nobody said a darn thing about the hip carried artillery sized handguns I tend to favor. Hell I've known the coffee guy for years, he always asks 'Which blaster you packing today?" In that part of town I don't mind answering a little louder than normal.

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:15 pm
Brian D. wrote:
...but don't have any bored, self made millionaire litigating attorney friends who want to take this on for nothing, among my list of friends.


You mean you don't know Bruce Wayne?

Oh wait, that guy ain't a lawyer.... :P :lol:

Quote:
Seems that I recall the West Side Market up your way as being partially propped-up...er, I mean partially funded by the city of Cleveland. Down here in Cincinnati, the Findlay Market sure is that way, they'd have gone broke eleventy-seven times by now without the municipal handouts...er, help. But, best I can tell that only makes going armed inside the buildings a no-no, not walking around and shopping on the outside. I grab some great coffee and particularly good cheese from a couple of those outside vendors, and more than once in OC mode. Nobody said a darn thing about the hip carried artillery sized handguns I tend to favor. Hell I've known the coffee guy for years, he always asks 'Which blaster you packing today?" In that part of town I don't mind answering a little louder than normal.


I'm really not sure of the status of the West Side Market. For some reason, I never thought to ask. :oops:

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:19 pm
I'm going from memory of a long ago discussion on OFCC about the Cleveland West Side Market, and may be in error.

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:40 pm
The last time I went to the West Side Market (earlier this year) and it is posted and I haven't been back.
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:49 pm
I'm a frequent flyer at Steve's Gyros. :lol:

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Visitor from NJ to Cleveland...with CCW questions
Post Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:35 am
TSiWRX wrote:
I'm a frequent flyer at Steve's Gyros. :lol:

Thanks! Now I might just have to break my rule and walk past a gun buster sign. Steve's has great gyros!
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