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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:55 am
Sorry to be away so long, health, getting old, and interruptions.
Here is picture of a lightweight Barnes bullet in 24ga FH.
Guys cut the back off of 750gr bullet off to get 500gr weight.

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Here is picture 58 cal Minie slug that's little long on the side for our 12ga
sabot, with the front of the slug above the grooves swaged to fit in
sabot. The swaged front third of the slug fits next to the internal ridge in
sabot and the sabot doesn't bulge out.Just run front into a die
and punch it back out.


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And some info about 12ga FH and other hopped up shotgun slug loads,
You know we like to use the rifle, IE slower than shotgun, powders.
We like to use IMR 4759 for some loads and RE17 for others where
we have room for larger charges. Those two powders are ignited ok in large
diameter cases like 12ga, 10ga, 16ga, etc, without needing BMG primers.
But we have always been looking for easy to ignite powders of the RE17
type, when cold, that has a speed between IMR 4759 and the RE17.
RE17 uses different process to put the deterrents in the powder to control
speeds, which allows much easier ignition, compared to big majority of rifle
powders with all the deterrent on the outside.

There are some out there made by Nitrochemie Switzerland, who makes
RE17, RE26, RE33, etc, for Alliant. It's the ' RELOAD SWISS' brand available
for those in UK and Europe, They are called RS 40, about same speed
as RE12, RS 50 & 52, same speed as RE15, RE60 & 62 same as RE17.
Also one ' Vihta Vouri ' powder called TR140 available over there,
that Nitrochemie made..

Many guys can't get IMR 4759 anymore, some can't get RE17.
I'd like to get some of RS 40-50-52 powders or V V TR140
into the states, would really be great help for hairy slug load work.
And guys in UK/EU now can load some real hairy, slow powder, slug loads,
even though not having IMR 4759....Ed
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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:05 pm
Here is picture of 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from.
He is going to make couple later necked down to 416, and 458.
There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat.

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Here is a picture of our poster Biebs on AR, 585 HE, in a MPI stock.
He used a big Enfield action, with a fancy jeweled bolt.

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We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really
long overall length loaded cases, like 4.5" long or more, if you are
using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work.
One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is Stiller Cheytac actions
made similar, just a newer version. Both actions come in 1.45" diameter
and a 1.60" diameter receivers.

And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has
these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with
another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single
stack, center feed, magazine..He has one of our 585 HE reamers on hand,
we have barrels, cases, and reloading dies..Ed

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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:42 pm
Here we kill two birds with one stone so to speak,

Best case sizer is the MEC Collet Super Sizer and it can double
as a case holder when we roll crimp. Much better hold than
the ones made to hold cases for crimping, that cost a lot.
Save cost of a holder, plus have best sizer around

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Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny type.

Image

Image

The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.

About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one being added on for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed

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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:43 am
Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb
stock, handles recoil great.Neat looking work... Ed

Image


About our 2.17" 585 BB case for lever guns, pistols, etc,.
It is made from our 585 case cut back to 2.17" long.
With loaded length of about 2.8" work in lever guns, etc.
Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.
One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,
to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case
that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet.
Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
Or rolling block rifles and pistols...Gonna try one in 1887.
Got first one in one of our guys Greener GP for testing..

In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site.


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Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.
On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down
and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of
weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.
Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight
like a compact UTG sight...Ed

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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:52 pm
Here is a picture from the back, of a big Lawton action that
our 585HE fits in nice. Scope rail on there is tapered
for long range shooting.

Image

Here is what our wildcatter buddy is making from our
585HE brass to see how they look and experiment with.
He is getting reamers, dies, and gun setup first for the 375.


Image
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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:39 pm
A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..
That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever.

Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized
bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.
I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat
bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.

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Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys put in the MPI stock..

Image

Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF

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On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander
die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always
felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight
roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the
bullet or slug, shortens case life.

So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of
of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small
amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads,
with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less
work that has to be done in the press ... Ed

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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:12 pm
Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun cases, holding
a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.
These with light brass slugs supposed to do over 2000 fps.

Image


Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN.
Known as Rocky Mtn Rifle. Video is on Youtube of testing our
585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A



Picture of Rossi singleshot with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it,
chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, for testing in a light rifle
with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got lots of cases. Ed

Image
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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:37 pm
Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double.
I like those old outside hammer, big bore guns.

Image

The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest, that we
we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked
in them like .585" bore for 585HE and 24ga FH.. One that is close
that we have, is the Magtech.

Well the guys have found one that is super strong lockup and looks
real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel,
soon be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH, the little brother of the 585HE.

We told company if they did them with NEF style, rifled, heavy slug barrel,
for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.

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Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that Bret and Darrel in Minn
set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job. It is in a Hogue, recoil
reducing, rubber coated, Compstock.Great job they did.. Ed

Image
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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:57 am
My grandfather and his brothers used to hunt with a 2 gauge shotgun, commonly referred to as a punt gun or a market gun. These were popular in the 1800's when commercial waterfowl hunting was permitted. Punt guns were used in long row boats similar to two oared rowing sculls. The gun was laid the length of the boat and the shooter/hunter would sit in the back, aim the gun over the bow of the boat and fire the gun by pulling a lanyard. My brother has a photo of my grandfather holding this gun (with a 10 ft barrel) and standing in front of about two dozen geese and ducks he and his brothers took out with one shot at Summit Lake in Akron. This gun was unusual for this area as it was more common to places along the Chesapeake, rather than Akron, Ohio.

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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:03 am
Be neat to have punt gun to fire off couple times a week.


We will have arrived when we have this big bore in our back yard,
Kind of a neat suppressor,

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Here is folder shotgun, the guys set up as 24ga FH.
Shoots nice, looks nice, it a more expensive break action,
compared to many others.

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Here is another view of what we feel is a nearly perfect
break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it.

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Here is picture of a 585HE MRC PH a guy set up..

Image


Here is picture of our shorter 585 BB for leverguns, etc, with
variety of bullets..Can get energy like regular elephant guns..Ed

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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 10:29 pm
Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.

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Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases

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Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in..
It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle, mounted it on the bolt
further back, so the port could be lengthened for our long case.
Also puts handle back where it is easier to grab.
Needs, more shaping, polishing, blueing, scope rail added.

Image

Here is another picture of the 585HE with great looking stock.
Nice looking wood. Ed

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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:41 am
There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with
locking on plastic bases securely on slugs.
Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores.

Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.

Image


Here is another view of the great camo job on the
585HE Enfield, a top view. Ed

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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:57 am
Here is a helix driver seal we made by cutting base from helix driver

wadcup, good for fullbore roundballs that are too big to go in cup.

Best one to cut off is shortest `12ga one BPI has.


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Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.

It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,

by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a

Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported

the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us, through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.


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That action similar to Lawton we had and neighbor got, that won the King Of The

2 Mile shoot at Whittington, with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,

from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.

He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..

Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.ED


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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:08 am
Fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, has worked with

Bertram and got the run of full length 12ga From Hell cases done.

Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims.

Any wanting to get some, contact Bertram at the email -----

[email protected] ......





Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal Cartridge and Mitchell Fitzpatrick's win.......

.375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.

Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,

Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms

muzzle brake. Lawton Action. Lethal Precision his own gunsmith shop, will make

these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..


Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target,

a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.

The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid performed great, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).



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Here is 585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy Varmint Stock. These are super strong.

The butts of these can easily be weighted. Couple guys doing them....... Ed


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Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Post Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:46 pm
Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan

Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.

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Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

for our case as it came from production line,.

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I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.

We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.

Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and

handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,


Image


Here is picture of 585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat

375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also. Ed


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