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Post subject: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:06 pm
So who's gotten on the waiting list for one of these space guns?

Weird looking, but if the quality is there it could be an interesting carry piece. I just don't like grip safeties. Don't like external safeties at all. My brain and index finger are all the safeties I require.

I'd like to shoot it, though.

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http://mcullison.blogspot.com/
Twitter: @camdenmike

I got a gun for my wife. Good trade.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:27 pm
Yes, I am. Since before the SHOT show.
The lady at my local gun shop hadn't even heard of it.
She checked her distributor's site and found it listed so put me down as first on the list to be called when they get one in.
The R51 will be my first 9 x 19 cartridge firearm. Currently, my EDC is a 1911 that I carry OWB, uncovered in warm weather.
At least I can find 9mm ammo here for the R51.

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:07 pm
Did the distributor have any idea how long a wait it might be?

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http://mcullison.blogspot.com/
Twitter: @camdenmike

I got a gun for my wife. Good trade.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:47 pm
CamdenMike wrote:
Did the distributor have any idea how long a wait it might be?

Didn't ask.
The press releases gave me the impression that the first shipments would be late this month or the next.
Note that my distributor is probably not yours.
Check my location.

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:35 am
Yeah, I see you're in Jefferson territory. No, I wasn't thinking about trying to order one, I was just curious about whether Remington had given a firm ship date.

I'm always amused at the half-assed business practices of some gun companies. Many seldom give a hard ship/release date and vaporware seems to be a widespread practice. Of course Freedom Group is a billion $ enterprise owned by a PE firm, so I'd expect them to do a better job.

Just dug through the Remington site and the press release on the R51 says it will ship early Q1.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://mcullison.blogspot.com/
Twitter: @camdenmike

I got a gun for my wife. Good trade.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:48 am
CamdenMike wrote:
Yeah, I see you're in Jefferson territory. No, I wasn't thinking about trying to order one, I was just curious about whether Remington had given a firm ship date.

I'm always amused at the half-assed business practices of some gun companies. Many seldom give a hard ship/release date and vaporware seems to be a widespread practice. Of course Freedom Group is a billion $ enterprise owned by a PE firm, so I'd expect them to do a better job.

Just dug through the Remington site and the press release on the R51 says it will ship early Q1.


NO KIDDING! I drive past Monticello every time I leave the house. It's less than 2 miles up the road between us and the highway and/or the road into Charlottesville. We're only 500 yards from the entrance to Jame Monroe's Ashlawn - Highlands.
Lot'a revolutionary history around here but it's still a blue county in a sea of red ones.

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:35 pm
Alan,

I'm looking forward to your review when you get one. The concept intrigues me, kinda a throwback to the HK P7 as well.

"All the public shootings in the United States in which more than three people have been killed have occurred in places where concealed handguns have been banned. "Washington Times article
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:39 pm
Once the mania passes I think I'll pick one up. Gun does have some intriguing features. Short review here:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/a ... ington-r51

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I got a gun for my wife. Good trade.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:17 pm
I find this comment on the review amusing:
Quote:
petru sova wrote:
February 06, 2014
Not a safe gun to carry except in a hard shell leather holster. Its exactly like carrying a 1911 .45 with the hammer cocked back and the manual safety in the off position. But people never take the time to learn how a gun actually works. Since they cannot see the Remingtons concealed hammer cocked back they see no danger. When shoving this gun in a waist band or pocket the grip safety will be deactivated allowing the trigger to move back if caught on anything and the gun will fire. Only use this gun In a holster when a round is In the chamber.


I wonder what this guy's opinion is of Glocks.
I seem to hear/read more stories of people "Glocking" themselves than I do of 1911 NDs.

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:22 pm
AlanM wrote:
I find this comment on the review amusing:
Quote:
petru sova wrote:
February 06, 2014
Not a safe gun to carry except in a hard shell leather holster. Its exactly like carrying a 1911 .45 with the hammer cocked back and the manual safety in the off position. But people never take the time to learn how a gun actually works. Since they cannot see the Remingtons concealed hammer cocked back they see no danger. When shoving this gun in a waist band or pocket the grip safety will be deactivated allowing the trigger to move back if caught on anything and the gun will fire. Only use this gun In a holster when a round is In the chamber.


I wonder what this guy's opinion is of Glocks.


Less so Glocks - more so the Springfield XD-series.

Quote:
I seem to hear/read more stories of people "Glocking" themselves than I do of 1911 NDs.


How many Glocks are out there, versus how many 1911s?

How many less-experienced/practiced shooters purchase a Glock versus a 1911?

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:44 am
I dont know that i would call ths a space gun as it has been around quite a few years .
Glad to see remington bring this one back .
I have an origonal model 51 in .32 ... it is rather easy to carry and shoot

As to the idiot and the unsafe to carry except in a holster .... just because an idiot can talk or type doesnt mean he isnt an idiot
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:51 am
Tsiwrx
I think you will find that 1911's vastly out number glocks
As to the inexperiance buying ...... if a person just goes off of sheer numbers sold
That inexperianced person is more likely to buy a1911 .

And as to the idiots glocking themselves ...... well i blame that on the idiot mall ninja types
Being more likely to buy a glock just because its a glock and you cant be a true mall ninja without a glock
Agian more of a case of you cant fix stupid
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:27 am
stephen45-70 wrote:
Tsiwrx
I think you will find that 1911's vastly out number glocks
As to the inexperiance buying ...... if a person just goes off of sheer numbers sold
That inexperianced person is more likely to buy a1911 .



Seems like somebody elsewhere did a little research(and some conjecture) and you might be a little off in your assertion.

Quote:
Well over 5M Glocks have been produced, most of them still in service. Check out the production numbers for 1911s.



Our military bought about 3 Million of them up to 1945. Argentina, Brazil, Britain, Mexico, Norway, and Russia also had factories making 1911s around this time.
Up to that point my googling shows numbers like this: colt had sold about 250k commercial ones. That's up to 1945 alone, and just colt on the commercial side.

In 2009 alone, Kimber made ~79,000 pistols. http://www.atf.gov/statistics/download/ ... report.pdf
Looks like colt made 23k, springfield 13k. And that's just .45 1911s from what I can see.
Let's totally ignore the fact that there's what, 24+ manufacturers of 1911s right now. Let's also snip those above numbers from those big 3 firms and go on this: there's 100,000 built a year.
Now lets ignore all commercial 1911 pistols built from 1945 to 1992 too. Lets go on say, 1992 to 2012.
20 x 100,000 is what, 2 million?

Using those numbers 1911s built are at 5 million also. Keep in mind RIA's also produced/sold quite a lot of 1911s at its low price point. Inexact, yes, but it's hard to get exact numbers, but it isn't too much of a stretch, and 100k total 1911s produced/imported between all the firms making them these days is very likely on the low side!
Even then, glock could (but I sincerely doubt this is the case) narrowly edge out the 1911 in numbers. This idea that glocks have far and away more numbers produced as of right now than the 1911 is silly. It's close at the very least.

"Well not every 1911 is still in service", derp, that's a red herring. Tons of guns end up in safes, tons of guns are carried and not shot, etc etc. Many LEOs themselves on these boards mention how little some officers shoot their department issue service pistols, that they end up sitting in holsters collecting dust and are treated like just another piece of gear. Many guns end up like this. Many of these guns are glocks.
It's a red herring to bring up "not all of them are run hard derp derp."
(Does this make the glock a bad platform? Nope!)


That said thanks for bringing this up, I was happy to have done at least a little bit of googling and have gotten a ballpark figure idea
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:29 am
stephen45-70 wrote:
Tsiwrx
I think you will find that 1911's vastly out number glocks
As to the inexperiance buying ...... if a person just goes off of sheer numbers sold
That inexperianced person is more likely to buy a1911 .

And as to the idiots glocking themselves ...... well i blame that on the idiot mall ninja types
Being more likely to buy a glock just because its a glock and you cant be a true mall ninja without a glock
Agian more of a case of you cant fix stupid


But you can fix spelling. :wink:
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:33 pm
pirateguy191 wrote:
stephen45-70 wrote:
Tsiwrx
I think you will find that 1911's vastly out number glocks
As to the inexperiance buying ...... if a person just goes off of sheer numbers sold
That inexperianced person is more likely to buy a1911 .



Seems like somebody elsewhere did a little research(and some conjecture) and you might be a little off in your assertion.

Quote:
Well over 5M Glocks have been produced, most of them still in service. Check out the production numbers for 1911s.



Our military bought about 3 Million of them up to 1945. Argentina, Brazil, Britain, Mexico, Norway, and Russia also had factories making 1911s around this time.
Up to that point my googling shows numbers like this: colt had sold about 250k commercial ones. That's up to 1945 alone, and just colt on the commercial side.

In 2009 alone, Kimber made ~79,000 pistols. http://www.atf.gov/statistics/download/ ... report.pdf
Looks like colt made 23k, springfield 13k. And that's just .45 1911s from what I can see.
Let's totally ignore the fact that there's what, 24+ manufacturers of 1911s right now. Let's also snip those above numbers from those big 3 firms and go on this: there's 100,000 built a year.
Now lets ignore all commercial 1911 pistols built from 1945 to 1992 too. Lets go on say, 1992 to 2012.
20 x 100,000 is what, 2 million?

Using those numbers 1911s built are at 5 million also. Keep in mind RIA's also produced/sold quite a lot of 1911s at its low price point. Inexact, yes, but it's hard to get exact numbers, but it isn't too much of a stretch, and 100k total 1911s produced/imported between all the firms making them these days is very likely on the low side!
Even then, glock could (but I sincerely doubt this is the case) narrowly edge out the 1911 in numbers. This idea that glocks have far and away more numbers produced as of right now than the 1911 is silly. It's close at the very least.

"Well not every 1911 is still in service", derp, that's a red herring. Tons of guns end up in safes, tons of guns are carried and not shot, etc etc. Many LEOs themselves on these boards mention how little some officers shoot their department issue service pistols, that they end up sitting in holsters collecting dust and are treated like just another piece of gear. Many guns end up like this. Many of these guns are glocks.
It's a red herring to bring up "not all of them are run hard derp derp."
(Does this make the glock a bad platform? Nope!)


That said thanks for bringing this up, I was happy to have done at least a little bit of googling and have gotten a ballpark figure idea


That was definitely a good read, pirateguy191 and stephen45-70 - thank you both for dispelling a myth that I'd held in my head. :)

It just doesn't *seem* like there's that many 1911s out there - but with those numbers, and that history, that definitely provides a new perspective.

Out of curiosity, pirateguy191, where is that excerpt from?

stephen45-70 wrote:
And as to the idiots glocking themselves ...... well i blame that on the idiot mall ninja types
Being more likely to buy a glock just because its a glock and you cant be a true mall ninja without a glock
Agian more of a case of you cant fix stupid


That's hard to argue against. :lol:

But then again, there are also plenty of armed professionals who manage to ND - I guess we can just call them professional idiots. :ewink:

-Allen
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