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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:56 pm
^^^Barfcom.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html? ... 3&t=124241
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:37 pm
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Location: Cuyahoga County
Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:19 pm
Pirateguy

There is no fixing my very poor spelling ... i can use a dictionary and still spell something wrong
At times i am happy if i am using the right word .. even if its spelled wrong
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:09 pm
Posts: 352
Location: lisbon
Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:26 pm
^ Hey, it's better than AutoCorrect! :P :egrin:


------


pirateguy191 wrote:


Thank you! :)

-Allen
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Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:10 pm
Posts: 1098
Location: Shaker Heights/Cleveland
Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:31 pm
stephen45-70 wrote:
Pirateguy

There is no fixing my very poor spelling ... i can use a dictionary and still spell something wrong
At times i am happy if i am using the right word .. even if its spelled wrong


:ewink:
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:37 pm
Posts: 161
Location: Cuyahoga County
Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:17 am
Well, I have to announce that I reneged on my decision to buy an R51.
After reading the range report by an early adopter on the other Ohio forum and finding out about other problems I stopped in at my local purveyor of things that go BANG! last Monday and canceled my order and looked at other 9mm pistols that met my requirements of staying in budget, not being tupperware, being large enough to get all my fingers on the grip, an external hammer so I can cock it as opposed to using the double action, and being heavy enough to absorb the recoil for better control for the second shot (if needed).

I was shown a Beretta M9 (over $600) and at first glance didn't like the mil. spec. sights.
Then I was shown one of these:
Image
The three dot sights are perfect for these old eyes. :D
I brought one home on Friday for $444 with taxes.
This site: http://www.stoegerindustries.com/cougar-pistol says the Stoeger Cougar 8000F (9mm) weighs in at 32.6 ounces unloaded. My digital scale shows that mine with an empty magazine comes in at 30.3 ounces.
15 rounds of 124 grain will probably bring it close to the 32.6 ounce figure.
This weekend I found and ordered a holster and 500 rounds of 124 gr RN range ammo.Image
So later this week it's "Hi Ho, Hi Ho, it's off to the range I go!!"

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Posts: 2417
Location: Was Stow, OH now Charlottesville, VA
Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:44 pm
I want to make a joke about you getting hold of a Cougar on your birthday but it's too dang easy, and (almost) beneath my normal high-brow humor. :lol:

What I've read about those guns is that recoil is further decreased by the way the barrel unlocks, don't know whether that is true or not.

It's obvious to me that you made a good decision in "calling an audible" with regards to that Remington R51, unless virtually every user report I've read (outside of printed gun rag puff pieces, which don't count) is false.

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:07 pm
Posts: 1890
Location: SW Ohio
Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:31 pm
Brian D. wrote:
I want to make a joke about you getting hold of a Cougar on your birthday but it's too dang easy, and (almost) beneath my normal high-brow humor. :lol:

What I've read about those guns is that recoil is further decreased by the way the barrel unlocks, don't know whether that is true or not.

It's obvious to me that you made a good decision in "calling an audible" with regards to that Remington R51, unless virtually every user report I've read (outside of printed gun rag puff pieces, which don't count) is false.


The rotating barrel is quite fascinating to watch in action (slowly, manually operating the slide).
There's a follower block that the recoil spring passes through that has a tab that engages a spiral groove In the barrel lug area of the barrel.
After the slide starts to move to the rear after the BANG! this follower causes the barrel to rotate CCW (as seen from my end) and unlock from the slide. (it's locked at three points by the lugs)
Unlike a 1911 the barrel doesn't tilt, it just rotates maybe 30°

I also find it interesting that if someone has strong enough fingers it's possible to have someone pointing one of these at them and reach out with their left hand, press the take down lock button with their index finger, flip the take down lever with their thumb, and then just pull the slide off.

Also, since the barrel is ONLY supported by the slide (which, of course, has the front and rear sights) the fact that there is a small amount of "play" between the slide and the frame is irrelevant to the gun's accuracy. (I could be wrong about this, but I don't think I am.)

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:49 pm
I just did some weighing.
My 1911 with 8 rounds of 230 gr. HST weighs 1256 grams (44.22 oz)
The Cougar with 15 rounds of 115 gr. FMJ weighs 1038 grams (36.44 oz)
I calculate that the Cougar with 15 rounds of 124 gr. will weigh ~ 1173 grams (41.3 oz)

From Widipedia:
9mm Parabellum - 115 gr (7.45 g) FMJ 1,300 ft/s (390 m/s) 420 ft·lbf (570 J )
9mm Parabellum - 124 gr (8.04 g) FMJ 1,200 ft/s (360 m/s) 382 ft·lbf (518 J)
.45 cal ACP - 230 gr (15 g) Federal Hydra-Shok 900 ft/s (270 m/s) 414 ft·lbf (561 J)

So I have double the number of rounds with about 63% of the surface area (HST NOT expanded) with very similar energies.
Hmmmmm. :?

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:42 am
I was just pointed at this review of my new baby's smaller sibling:
http://www.usacarry.com/stoeger-cougar-compact-review/

This is basically the same gun with two less rounds available.

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 1:27 am
My strongest response was how much better looking the model 51 is vrs the new R51.
I guess I just do not warm to modern plastic fantastic firearms perhaps due to the way I have seen engineered plastic items degrade and fail in the early years of the tech in the 50s and 60s when they were learning how to use the wonder material. Anyone else here have a chance to shoot a Dardek pistol back in the day with its Tround ammo?

But honestly I know that those early material problems were solved a long time ago and you can not argue against the market domination of Glock and the other plastic designs .
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:18 am
Update:
I've gotten rid of the Cougar but in a good way.
Just a few days ago, on Mother's Day 5/10/15, my youngest daughter graduated from OSU cum laude with a BS in biochemistry and will be going on for a PhD.
As one of her (and her SO, Jack) graduation presents I brought everything I had collected 9mm and Cougar related with me from Virginia.
After taking both of them to a range to try out the gun to make sure they were comfortable and competent with it, I had the range FFL transfer the gun to my daughter.
I'm also urging them to get their CHLs.
But at least, for now, they have something for home defense other than Jack's long barreled shotguns and muzzle loaders.

I'm sure there is another 9mm in my future, maybe another Cougar, maybe some other full metal pistol.
(I have a strong aversion to light weight firearms)

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
Last edited by AlanM on Thu May 14, 2015 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:31 am
Hivner:

Welcome Aboard!

This is kind of an old thread, but wth, if you have something to say, say it! (And you did :D.)

I spent about 30 years in a plastics company, and have a lot of experience with that stuff. The right materials make a difference, and it seems like every day somebody introduces some new material with even better properties in some uses.

However, I did have to replace the grip (most of the plastic part on the bottom half of the gun) on a P3AT a couple years ago. I'd guess that the material was a little cold when molded, but I'm not sure. My S&W Tupperguns seem to have held up just fine, though.

There's a sticky at http://forums.buckeyefirearms.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10097 that you should have a look at, but it's not mandatory, and may be sleep inducing. IAC, it'll give you some idea of who's here, and how this place works. Or, at least, information on who the little dog in my avatar is. And the attack cats....

I never fired a Dardek, btw, but remember when it was introduced. "Popular [something or other]" did an article on the thing back in the 50's. A solution for which no problem existed, or some such. For the guys who have no idea what we're talking about, the Dardek used triangular plastic shell casings (or, I think, could support a .22 rimfire inserted into a plastic holder). They lived in the grip, and moved up and around the revolver's cylinder as it was fired. I think reloading was fast, but the small semi's seem to have gotten reliable enough to take over the market. Ugly gun, too :D....

****

Alan:

Congrats on the daughter's graduation. Becka's still tearing up Columbus as a nurse.

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:41 pm
I like the rotating barrel of the Stoeger, although I opted for the Beretta PX-4SD. Cuts down on recoil and makes for more accurate double tap shots. $900 out the door through Gunbroker.com

Uncle Duke

NRA Life Member
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NRA Pistol,Home Firearm Safety,Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home Instructor, Certified UT, MD, MA Handgun & LEOSA Instructor
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Post subject: Re: Remington R51
Post Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:43 am
My strongest response was how much better looking the model 51 is vrs the new R51.
I guess I just do not warm to modern plastic fantastic firearms perhaps due to the way I have seen engineered plastic items degrade and fail in the early years of the tech in the 50s and 60s when they were learning how to use the wonder material. Anyone else here have a chance to shoot a Dardek pistol back in the day with its Tround ammo?

But honestly I know that those early material problems were solved a long time ago and you can not argue against the market domination of Glock and the other plastic designs .


________________________________________
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