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Post subject: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal training?
Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:19 am
Hey guys,

I want to know what you think about joining firearms safety training classes for the sake of improving self defense skills. Is it really necessary?

Get firearms safety training online from an NRA certified school.
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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:30 am
Formal self defense training is like wearing your seat belt when driving and wearing a helmet when on a motorcycle, it may be a bother but you're more likely to survive with it than without it.

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:53 am
This is Count Chocula

AlanM is right. Formal training not only helps with skills, but also mindset, and sometimes tactics (depending on the training). Also you might pick up some things you could have otherwise missed about legality of use of force. Also tips just about the practical aspects of carrying.

Very highly recommended.

All that being said, and nobody is going to like to hear this, good guys usually win. Even with no training, even with almost no or no firearm experience. Don't mean to send mixed messages but it is something that is often glossed over.

Now I'd rather be lucky than good but luck has been a mixed bag. So I learned that fortune favors the prepared :)

The Count

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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:56 pm
Necessary?

No, not at all.

Look at the vast, vast majority of successful legal defensive-use-of-firearms instances in the news over the past year, five years, ten years, whatever.

How many of those are with individuals who have received any form of formal firearms training?

My personal belief is that firearms are a great equalizer. It allows the small, weak, or infirm to be able to mount a successful self-defense against larger, stronger, and more able-bodied aggressor(s). I think if we made training legally mandatory - i.e. legally "necessary" - we will have effectively removed this most effective method of self-defense from some of the very people who may need it most: the single parent who pulls down two jobs to make ends meet, the working-poor who must leave or return to their homes in less-than-desirable parts of town at Godforsaken hours, the elderly on a fixed income or who don't have reliable transportation, those with physical or mental handicaps who either have a difficult time finding an accommodating and knowledgeable instructor to properly train them, individuals who have social phobias, etc.

I think it is theright of any living creature to be able to defend themselves and those they love. I believe that self-defense with a firearm - or any other tool/instrument - falls under that umbrella. Should we have to be formally trained to fight back with our hands and feet, or do we also surrender that right, roll over and die, simply because we are not "trained?"

Now, all that said, anyone who knows me knows that I am a very strong proponent of training. I completely subscribe to the "Clint-ism" that we should strive for magnificence in our training so that we have the room to fail to mediocrity. :lol:

I would advocate, without hesitation, for anyone who wants such training to seek it out, and what's more, I am more than willing to help them - in any way I can - to do it.

[ Aside: For those who say that when it comes to it, when you're in court defending your shoot, that you can show you've had training is better than to have nothing to show, I submit the very recent and very widely known case of Zimmerman/Martin. We will recall that the prosecution did attempt to use Zimmerman's "training" background against him. The reality is that you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. It's the job of your defense team to show to the judge/jury that the training you received helped you make the right decision at the time. The other side will always try to use *everything* against you that it can. Your martial training isn't to help you survive the legal battle (unless, of-course, you're an attorney!) - rather, it is to help you survive the lethal force encounter you've found yourself in, at that crucial moment. ]

----

To zero-in specifically on what GunnerJacky wrote above, though:

GunnerJacky wrote:
...joining firearms safety training classes for the sake of improving self defense skills.


That's a very interesting question.

I think that safety has to be taught and reinforced so that it becomes reflexive. And it has to be practiced as-such by the individual as they seek to improve their self-defense skills through training.

Why?

Because it will do me absolutely no good if I desired to employ my firearm in self-defense, but managed instead only to shoot myself.

As one progresses through ever more intense training, that possibility of making a mistake only increases. If the shooter cannot safely manipulate the gun in the most basic manner when simply cleaning or storing their weapon, how can they be expected to do so when at the range either in the stall or on the firing-line? If they cannot do so at a static range, how can they be expected to do so when surrounded by their classmates in a square-range training class? If they cannot do so safely on the square-range, how can they be trusted in a shoot-house?

So, yes, safety is essential. And I strongly believe that if one is constantly being admonished "Finger!" or "Muzzle!" by the instructor/RSO or one finds oneself putting shots through no-shoot targets, then perhaps it is time to revisit those most basic, fundamental, and vital Four Rules.

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:09 pm
I took an advanced pistol course this summer and found it well worth the cost and it's changed the way I practice.

An LCP is my CC (constant companion)
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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:09 pm
^ Since you're not too far from where I am, I wonder if you'd be willing to share who you sought training with?

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:33 pm
I took a one day class through Great Lakes in Middlefield.

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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:28 pm
^ Cool. Was Will B. your instructor? I took one of his pistol classes in the spring of 2012. Frozen rain that day. :)

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:36 am
What I think is that, if a person gets firearms training from any good NRA certified training school then he is most likely to survive and do better with guns. I have heard a lots of news where people who didn't get the training in firearms end up accidentally shooting themselves or their family members.

Get firearms safety training online from an NRA certified school.
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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:10 am
GunnerJacky:

I'm not sure that the statistics used to state "shoot themselves or their family members" are from trustworthy sources. But it's still something to consider.

The "NRA Basic Pistol" course that was the foundation of most CHL classes until recently wasn't too bad on "don't kill the guy beside you", but really is just a starting point. There were follow-on courses available that are worth the time, and from other sources. (The NRA is changing their courses around right now. I'm not sure what's going on there.)

(Allen has probably taken every course available within the continental US, but that's also another story :D.)

Things I recommend.... Take as many courses as you can find.... Vet them here if necessary, or from friends. (Join a club for more input.) Get on the range and shoot as much and as often as you can. I find that just punching paper at 30' while putting six or so shots into a six inch circle is sufficient. Under pressure, the group size will increase, but most confrontations occur at distances under 10', at which point that little typewriter-paper target looks like a garbage can lid. That'll make up for stress and other accuracy issues.

Try to practice barricade and floor shooting, too, as well as downhill and uphill if possible. If you can find a "shooting house", that's good, too, as are any of the "simulators" (IMHO, "FAST" may be the best) if you can get access.

Use a gun that doesn't need to be "held to the lower left" or some such craziness. Stick with ONE if possible, or at least keep your choices more or less the same. It's far easier to recover from not flipping off a thumb safety that's not there than to figure out how to do it if your current choice has one....

Regards,

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:21 pm
SMMAssociates wrote:
(Allen has probably taken every course available within the continental US, but that's also another story :D.)


The only one I'm missing is Killer Ninja Assassin 101! :oops: :P :lol:

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:34 am
I highly recommend it and not just because I'm an NRA firearms instructor. Routinely drilling is necessary to overcome one's nature reactions to pause, hesitate, or freeze. While one might be good at hitting the bulls eye or keeping all of their shots on the paper when they go to the range, this really isn't sufficient to negate the effect of panic or anxiety when dealing with the stress associated with a potential shooter/attacker. I'm onboard with the other posters here that advocate for simulated situations using laser/SIRT guns, shooting from different positions, and shooting on the move at outdoor ranges. While nothing can duplicate the amount of stress you might experience during an actual shooting, you can overlearn and develop good habits (including safety) that might save your life or those around you.

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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:25 pm
TSiWRX wrote:
^ Cool. Was Will B. your instructor? I took one of his pistol classes in the spring of 2012. Frozen rain that day. :)


Nope Z

Quote:
(Allen has probably taken every course available within the continental US, but that's also another story :D.)


Know of a good pocket gun class locally?

An LCP is my CC (constant companion)
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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:53 pm
^ Safety Solutions Academy typically hosts one or another of the snubbie specialists some time during the year at the Southington Hunt Club facility.

-Allen
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Post subject: Re: Is it necessary for self defense to get a formal trainin
Post Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:19 am
Uncle Duke wrote:
I highly recommend it.


I highly recommend it too. :esmile:

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