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Post subject: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:59 am
I saw the article. I'm thinking there was an article a week or two ago then a rewrite that corrected some things like the age to purchase legally from FFL under federal law (it is 21 or older).

Still an addendum to the article might be worthwhile to point out that a person who holds the Ohio Permit to Possess Dangerous Ordnance could indeed own the Shockwave legally under Ohio law.

But as far as I understand the FFL would have to have the license as well because there is no FFL exemption in ORC for possession of such stuff.

The situation is quite similar to the Calico large capacity firearms that held more than 31 rounds, before ORC was changed to not classify them as "automatic firearms"....I do know there were some of those in Ohio because and FFL I know contacted me about repairing one, he did not want it on his bound books.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.18


Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:43 pm
the simple fact is the shockwave is no more a shotgun then a flare gun from walmart....

the law does not apply...
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:50 am
Ring wrote:
the simple fact is the shockwave is no more a shotgun then a flare gun from walmart....

the law does not apply...


Well the shockwave IS a firearm. The way the law is interpreted federally IMHO one could take a Persuader or other gun that had never been a shotgun (no shoulder stock ever)....put a long grip on it....then cut the oal to 26.25" (to be safe) and the barrel length would not matter.

BUT LE for generations have been taught state and federal that if it is smooth bore the barrel MUST be 18".

And the whole Randy Weaver case may have pivoted on shotguns that Randy altered barrel length to 18+ after being pestered by a govt stooge, then somebody ELSE altered them so the OAL was under 26". Same deal with the shockwave....put a Persuader grip on it and drop under 26" and you have an illegal SBS or AOW.

Bill

America NO LONGER held hostage by ZERO the lying dictator.......:-)

Ohio, a government of the unions, by the unions, for the unions
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:42 am
Ring wrote:
the simple fact is the shockwave is no more a shotgun then a flare gun from walmart....

the law does not apply...



I agree.


willbird wrote:
I saw the article. I'm thinking there was an article a week or two ago then a rewrite that corrected some things like the age to purchase legally from FFL under federal law (it is 21 or older).

Still an addendum to the article might be worthwhile to point out that a person who holds the Ohio Permit to Possess Dangerous Ordnance could indeed own the Shockwave legally under Ohio law.

But as far as I understand the FFL would have to have the license as well because there is no FFL exemption in ORC for possession of such stuff.

The situation is quite similar to the Calico large capacity firearms that held more than 31 rounds, before ORC was changed to not classify them as "automatic firearms"....I do know there were some of those in Ohio because and FFL I know contacted me about repairing one, he did not want it on his bound books.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.18


Bill



So far, I haven't seen the State of Ohio comment on the subject.

Only people on the internet.... speculating about Ohio law.

The letter from the ATF seemed quite clear. It's not an NFA item or a shotgun.

I seriously doubt Mossberg (and now Remington) would be putting these out there, based on ambiguity of the law.


*Bill, why the hate for Unions ?*
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:54 pm
Six Shooter wrote:
So far, I haven't seen the State of Ohio comment on the subject.

Only people on the internet.... speculating about Ohio law.

It might be wise for people to read the ATF's letter themselves, rather than relying on "people on the internet".
It's at http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uplo ... 3-2-17.pdf

Six Shooter wrote:
The letter from the ATF seemed quite clear. It's not an NFA item or a shotgun.

Nowhere in that letter does the ATF say it is not a shotgun. They do say it's not an NFA item, which is not in question.

Even if they did say it wasn't a shotgun, they would be referring to federal laws and definitions. For people who don't understand that federal law <> state law, Mossberg makes this explicit:

Quote:
NOTE: This letter only speaks to its FEDERAL status. There could be local/state laws that prohibit the sale of this gun in your state.

https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

Also, it's factually incorrect to say it's just "people on the internet". Neither Bud's Gun Shop nor Palmetto State Armory will ship this to Ohio. Texas just changed their laws on short-barreled firearms to allow this to be legal in Texas. Up until that law change their law was functionally identical to Ohio's language.
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:39 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Six Shooter wrote:
So far, I haven't seen the State of Ohio comment on the subject.

Only people on the internet.... speculating about Ohio law.

It might be wise for people to read the ATF's letter themselves, rather than relying on "people on the internet".
It's at http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uplo ... 3-2-17.pdf

Six Shooter wrote:
The letter from the ATF seemed quite clear. It's not an NFA item or a shotgun.

Nowhere in that letter does the ATF say it is not a shotgun. They do say it's not an NFA item, which is not in question.

Even if they did say it wasn't a shotgun, they would be referring to federal laws and definitions. For people who don't understand that federal law <> state law, Mossberg makes this explicit:

Quote:
NOTE: This letter only speaks to its FEDERAL status. There could be local/state laws that prohibit the sale of this gun in your state.

https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

Also, it's factually incorrect to say it's just "people on the internet". Neither Bud's Gun Shop nor Palmetto State Armory will ship this to Ohio. Texas just changed their laws on short-barreled firearms to allow this to be legal in Texas. Up until that law change their law was functionally identical to Ohio's language.



So, what you're saying is....

A federally licensed Ohio firearms dealer, (knowingly) violated Ohio law when they sold me one.

Interesting.


That sounds like a lot of liability to incur.
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:51 pm
Six Shooter wrote:
So, what you're saying is....

A federally licensed Ohio firearms dealer, (knowingly) violated Ohio law when they sold me one.

Interesting.


That sounds like a lot of liability to incur.


No, I'm saying its legal status in Ohio is unclear and likely will be until an appeals court or statewide authority releases a formal, public notice about it. There are businesses who are not willing to sell it, and others who are. Maybe they received an ok from a local authority - that would probably clear them of the "negligently fail" standard to avoid a criminal charge themselves, but that won't help their customers.

To call it just "people on the internet" is to diminish the serious legality question here. In addition to Buds Gun Shop and Palmetto State Armory, I've now discovered that Davidson's / Gallery of Guns will also not sell this in Ohio. These are companies that are in the business of making money, and do it well and on a large scale, but have decided not to sell this product to Ohioans because of the legal question.
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:59 pm
So let's say I go to Bud's Guns in Lexington to buy one in person. So I get out my Ohio driver's license in preparation of filling out the Form 4473 and do the NICS check. Will the clerk see my DL and refuse to make the sale? What if I then tell them the gun was going to be kept at my vacation home in Kentucky someplace and would never be taken to Ohio?

Now we got a conundrum.

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:03 pm
Brian - that would be up to Bud's to do the sale, but for ATF compliance purposes the info on their sales receipt has to match the info on the 4473, so they'd have to call it in as a KY residency meaning you'd have to show proof of KY residency, which again is likely to clear them of the "negligently fail" standard to avoid a (OH) criminal charge themselves. Whether they'd be willing to do that or not is up to them.
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:13 pm
Brian D. wrote:
So let's say I go to Bud's Guns in Lexington to buy one in person. So I get out my Ohio driver's license in preparation of filling out the Form 4473 and do the NICS check. Will the clerk see my DL and refuse to make the sale? What if I then tell them the gun was going to be kept at my vacation home in Kentucky someplace and would never be taken to Ohio?

Now we got a conundrum.


You could buy it there.

But, you would need to have it transferred to an Ohio FFL.

Just like a handgun.

Because.... it's not a shotgun.


And how many federally licensed Ohio firearms dealers are already doing that ?

Several, that I know of.
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:19 pm
Actually that's what I figured. Personally have no use for the Shockwave, or an AR based pistol.

Now, an M1921 Thompson smg, Cutts compensator and vertical foregrip? Yee- Haw!

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:59 pm
Brian D. wrote:
Personally have no use for the Shockwave, or an AR based pistol.!



Thanks.... for trying to impose your brand of justice upon me.

What's next ? Stifle my freedom of speech ?
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:01 am
Six Shooter:

Almost a personal attack there....

Brian doesn't like the mentioned firearms. I don't much care for them, either (my essentially legal Mossberg is close), but while he may have been a little less than tactful, it's just an opinion....

You can more or less say anything you want to on this board - at least anything you'd say with the kiddies around. Otherwise, to get banned, edited, or worse, you really have to work at it.

Enjoy!

Stu

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:48 am
Six Shooter wrote:
Brian D. wrote:
Personally have no use for the Shockwave, or an AR based pistol.!



Thanks.... for trying to impose your brand of justice upon me.

What's next ? Stifle my freedom of speech ?


Offering my opinion on a couple of firearms is all. People do that on gun forums sometimes.

"I have decided not to vote, speak in public, assemble in groups or petition my government either directly or by writing to the newspapers.

Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

--CAR15A2, 3/31/09
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Post subject: Re: Mossberg Shockwave in Ohio
Post Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:42 pm
SMMAssociates wrote:
Six Shooter:

Almost a personal attack there....

Brian doesn't like the mentioned firearms. I don't much care for them, either (my essentially legal Mossberg is close), but while he may have been a little less than tactful, it's just an opinion....

You can more or less say anything you want to on this board - at least anything you'd say with the kiddies around. Otherwise, to get banned, edited, or worse, you really have to work at it.

Enjoy!



Thanks for the warm welcome.
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