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Post subject: Two reports of gun factories in "gun-free" OZ
Post Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:11 am
Submachine-guns found in weapons factory

Quote:
The discovery of an underground weapons factory in Melbourne producing submachine-guns fitted with silencers is a dangerous development in the context of the city's gangland war, federal Justice Minister Chris Ellison warned yesterday.

He revealed that three Owen submachine-guns and parts to make another six had been seized from a building in Melbourne's south-east.


For those that aren't up to speed on Australian WWII style weapons:
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http://historywarsweapons.com/owen-submachine-gun/

Several hundred miles away:

Jeweller Angelos Koots admits to making sub-machine guns at his Seven Hills home and supplying them to bikie groups
(That's Seven Hills outside of Sydney, Australia not the Seven Hills near Cleveland, OH but it could be.)

Quote:
Backyard arms trader Angelos Koots admitted making up to 100 of the perfectly constructed MAC 10 machine guns - more commonly seen in war zones and believed to have been used in Sydney gang shootings - at his Seven Hills house.


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Quote:
Pictured are the homemade Mac-10 sub-machine guns seized by Strike Force Silverwood police during a search of a property. Source: Supplied


Make sure to read the comments with this second story. There's at least one ozzie that understands our point of view and agrees with it.

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
Last edited by AlanM on Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Two reports of gun factories in "gun-free" OZ
Post Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:49 am
Alan:

ROF,L, if it wasn't so serious....

But that link to South Hills isn't any good. Takes you to a zillion Google hits for the area, but not the article.

I'm not at all familiar with the Owen, but during WWII, the Brits got the Sten gun down to about $5/unit, and a few years ago in someplace like Pakistan there were guys making AK47's with some truck axles, scrap metal, and a few files. The concept of "you can't make 'em" may apply to some modern weapons, but a whole lot of very useful weapons can be made that way. The trick is to stay well inside safety margins, if you can figure out what they are, or how to test for 'em. Otherwise, you go with that little .45 that the US was passing around in Europe at the end of WWII. (Can't think of the name.) The idea was simple: Kill an enemy soldier and take his weapon.

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Two reports of gun factories in "gun-free" OZ
Post Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:19 am
Brain phart.
Fixed it.

The gun was the Liberator.
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Vintage Ordnance Co. FP-45 Liberator Pistol & Packaging Set

AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
Last edited by AlanM on Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Two reports of gun factories in "gun-free" OZ
Post Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:25 am
SMMAssociates wrote:
Alan:

ROF,L, if it wasn't so serious....

But that link to South Hills isn't any good. Takes you to a zillion Google hits for the area, but not the article.

I'm not at all familiar with the Owen, but during WWII, the Brits got the Sten gun down to about $5/unit, and a few years ago in someplace like Pakistan there were guys making AK47's with some truck axles, scrap metal, and a few files. The concept of "you can't make 'em" may apply to some modern weapons, but a whole lot of very useful weapons can be made that way. The trick is to stay well inside safety margins, if you can figure out what they are, or how to test for 'em. Otherwise, you go with that little .45 that the US was passing around in Europe at the end of WWII. (Can't think of the name.) The idea was simple: Kill an enemy soldier and take his weapon.

Regards,


Stu, that region of Pakistan has gun "factories" that are about equivalent to our old west era blacksmith shops technology wise. But still, because of so much practice they're able to pound out pretty good copies of the SKS and AK designs.

The throwaway .45 pistol you're thinking of was called the Liberator and produced by General Motors' Guide Lamp division in Anderson Indiana.

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Some ignorant person may become alarmed, and we can't have that.''

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Post subject: Re: Two reports of gun factories in "gun-free" OZ
Post Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:08 am
Alan, Brian:

Thanks for "Liberator".... I had to be at the Title office at 0800 and hadn't been to bed yet.... (Still haven't come to think of it - next on my punch list :D....)

(FINALLY got plates for the Caddy. Six months.... Today's clerk had absolutely no idea what had to be done, but between me and her supervisor, managed to get it done in about an hour.... Sheesh....)

YPD had a Liberator in the Crime Lab, in a display of nasty stuff they'd confiscated over the years. Nobody wanted to shoot it :) ....

You really don't need much technology to build an SKS or AK, other than the barrels. I think they were using truck axles, but I have no idea how they bored & rifled them. OTOH, both have been done for centuries with machinery that we'd laugh about today, so I don't doubt it.

Point being that anybody with a little machining skill and some plans (or another gun) to copy, can make a useful weapon, and with a little luck, a safe one, too.

Regards,

Stu

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Post subject: Re: Two reports of gun factories in "gun-free" OZ
Post Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:43 pm
What is it with British Common Wealth countries & submachineguns with magazines that have crazy feed angles? ...Off the top of my head I'm thinking of the Sten, the Sterling, & the lanchester submachine guns. (Add the Bren in the catagory of LMGs...) Never heard of the Owen before ... but add that to the list. The proper feed angle is "bottom-up" the Yanks, Krauts & Russkies seem to get that in thier Sub machine gun designs ...

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Post subject: Re: Two reports of gun factories in "gun-free" OZ
Post Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:40 am
Viking wrote:
What is it with British Common Wealth countries & submachineguns with magazines that have crazy feed angles? ...Off the top of my head I'm thinking of the Sten, the Sterling, & the lanchester submachine guns. (Add the Bren in the catagory of LMGs...) Never heard of the Owen before ... but add that to the list. The proper feed angle is "bottom-up" the Yanks, Krauts & Russkies seem to get that in thier Sub machine gun designs ...


I read before that the thought behind it is to keep the shooter lower in the prone position but still allow a high cap mag. Most of those were designed with a single stack stick mags for easy and cheap production.

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Post subject: Re: Two reports of gun factories in "gun-free" OZ
Post Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:57 pm
CW78:

Makes sense in terms of trench warfare - you're always well prepared to fight the last war :D, but it also makes carrying the thing a little iffy. I think somebody's afraid that the magazine springs need gravity assistance, or else :mrgreen: ....

Or they're just aesthetically deficient....

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Stu

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Post subject: Re: Two reports of gun factories in "gun-free" OZ
Post Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:18 pm
Try as I might, I couldn't find any "official" answer on the web to articulate the reason for the side feed design. The Sten was a crude, wartime expedient copy of the lanchester sub machinegun which itself was a copy of the German MP 18. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_18#Evolution I'm going to chalk it up to a design expediency & nothing more. Interesting that the British would keep (& expand upon) this design, long after the rest of the major arms producers had abandoned it as clumsy & prone to feed problems.

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