From Washington Post Op Ed, on Stand Your Ground.

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From Washington Post Op Ed, on Stand Your Ground.

Post by gfrlaser » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:06 pm

This columnist believes running is still the answer I presume.[/color]

The law is supposed to solve problems, not cr ate them. Laws should provide for as much clar- ity as possible, not ex- pand the realms of am- biguity and subjectivity. Laws ought to bring about the practical results their promoters claim they’ll achieve. And at its best, the law can help us to live together more harmoni- ously. By all these measures, “stand your ground” laws are a failure. We should not have had to go through another racially charged trial in Florida to learn all this. Writing in The Washing- ton Post, Mark Berman of- fered a succinct account of the facts of the Michael Dunn case that has aroused so much legitimate passion. “In November 2012, Michael Dunn shot 17-year- old Jordan Davis in a Jacksonville, Fla., gas station parking lot. Dunn had ap- proached a Dodge Durango holding Davis and three other teenagers and asked them to turn down their music. ... An argu- ment developed, and Dunn fired 10 times at the vehicle, including multi- ple shots fired as it pulled away. “Davis died almost im- mediately after he was hit. ... Dunn, who was in town for a wedding, re- turned to his hotel and drove back home to Brevard County the following morning; he was arrested later that day.” Dunn said he saw a shotgun in the Durango but there was no evidence of one. Dunn was convicted on three counts of attempt- ed second-degree murder but the jury hung on the first-degree murder
charge brought in connec- tion with Davis’ death. The verdict came seven months after George Zimmerman was acquitted in the Sanford, Fla., killing of Trayvon Martin in an- other case where stand your ground was at issue. Both Martin and Da- vis were black teenagers. Should it surprise any- one that many blacks fear that the law does not protect young males of col- or when they find them- selves in confrontations with whites? We shouldn’t fault the Dunn jury, which seemed to be struggling to reach a just outcome. The jury clearly saw no justifica- tion for his firing at a fleeing car. But stand your ground undoubtedly sowed confusion on the murder count. Florida’s statute allows someone to use force if he or she “reasonably be- lieves that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlaw- ful force.” The “reasonable belief” standard is not unique to stand your ground laws, but it opens a vast loophole for ex- treme subjectivity when it is applied in conjunction
with them. This has creat- ed problems that even the law’s supporters should acknowledge. A comprehensive 2012 examination of the law by the Tampa Bay Times concluded: “Seven years since it was passed, Florida’s ‘stand your ground’ law is being invoked with unexpected frequency, in ways no one imagined, to free killers and violent attackers whose self-defense claims seem questionable at best.” Stand your ground laws shift the balance of power on the streets to those who carry weapons. They thus provide an incentive for everyone to be armed, which is why the National Rifle Association has pres- sured legislatures in some two dozen states to enact them. We shouldn’t have to wait for another death and another controver- sial trial to recognize that this is no reason for laws that cause such palpable harm. It’s time to repeal them.

E.J. Dionne Jr. writes for The Washington Post. Email address: [email protected].
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Re: From Washington Post Op Ed, on Stand Your Ground.

Post by pirateguy191 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:56 pm

Paragraphs my friend, paragraphs.

Link to the OP's dump. ... story.html

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Re: From Washington Post Op Ed, on Stand Your Ground.

Post by SMMAssociates » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:04 pm


Welcome Aboard!

There's a sticky at viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10097 that you should have a look at, but it's not mandatory, and may be hazardous to your health :D.... It does explain a little about who's here, and how things work, and the little dog in my avatar.

About your post (thanks pirateguy).... Generally speaking, we don't permit you to dump a whole article on the board like that - just post a short description ("Columnist opposes Stand Your Ground", for example), and a link. Those who care will click on it and see what the columnist had to say.

Also, the use of paragraphs is a very good idea. It's kinda hard to read otherwise :) ....

We've got a "timer" on the editing function, so you probably can't change your post at this time - guess we can just leave it alone, but for next time....

BTW, if you don't know how to post a link, the easiest way is to fire up the "Full Editor" instead of the "Quick Reply" window, and then type or paste the link into the text body. Then highlight the link with your mouse, and click on the "URL" button on the top of the editor. All that really does is plug in "" and " tags around the text, but it's a little less likely to get mucked up.

(I don't think 800000 is a valid color number, but the same method is used to set the color of something - just highlight a text portion and click on a color.)

Please consider this a gentle warning - we don't want to scare off new members :D, and there are a whole lot of worse things you could do here.

About the post.... IMHO/IANAL, but this guy doesn't get it.... SYG is no magic "shoot the other guy" law. All it's really doing is making it easier on Concealed Carry (and Open Carry) folks by removing the need to minutely prove that we didn't have an option to get out of a situation. The Prosecution would then have the opportunity to try to show that we did, but they're already trying to do that anyway.

Originally, OH CHL holders had an absolute duty to retreat unless it could be shown that it was impossible. Climb out a window and cede your house to the invaders.... We got a "Castle" defense a few years later that said that when we're in our own home or car (there are a few more things involved), the duty to retreat is minimized (you still should always avoid a confrontation). SYG just extends that to other places where we could lawfully be.


(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)


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