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  • Secured for Freedom

    One Goal. To secure our freedom to bear arms by securing our arms when we are not bearing them.
    https://www.facebook.com/SecuredForFreedom?ref=stream

    If you are on Facebook please consider liking this page showing you are a responsible gun owner who not only wants to defend your rights but protect your firearms from theft and needless accidents. :wink:
    Motorcycle and gun videos from ADVfilmer in Ohio. http://www.youtube.com/user/advfilmer?feature=mhee

  • #2
    So a little history behind this idea. I have had several extended debates on other forums with individuals who have a bravado about gun ownership and the lack of need to secure their firearms. It struck me as odd one of these people was even asking where to hide them because he was going on vacation and didn't want them stolen. :roll:
    I asked, "Do you value your guns more than you underwear?" Yes, he replied. "So then why do you secure your firearm at the same level of security you use for your jock strap? :lol: "Well, a safe isn't in the budget right now", he explained. This took me by surprise as he was talking about buying a new glock. So he had enough for a $600 gun but not enough money to secure the guns he already had. It makes no sense to me.
    I am not trying to slam anyone here as last fall I had a family member that had his guns stolen from his home. It was a surprise because he doesn't live on a street. He lives on a lake, surrounded by other family members homes in one of the hardest to reach areas of the Adirondacks. It was never seen as an issue that they weren't locked up and anyone near his place would surely be spotted, or so he thought. Now over thirty years of collected guns are gone.
    So what have we as gun advocates done so far? We have fought a good fight, written letters that may or may not go right in a politicians trash can and given our money and time to organizations dedicated to defending our right to firearms. I want more. I want there to be a difference. I want the gun owners to be able to stand up and say we are responsible and the weight of our guns isn't measured in ounces or pounds but in the weight of responsibility they place upon our hearts. For this reason I have picked this avenue. If it fails I can only conclude the interest wasn't there for people to be responsible about their guns and the "from my cold dead hands" statement is only a bumper sticker you got to impress your friends.
    After all Charleston Heston had a walk in vault to protect his collection and I bet Wayne LaPierre does too. I would be surprised to learn they left their firearms laying around. :wink:
    Motorcycle and gun videos from ADVfilmer in Ohio. http://www.youtube.com/user/advfilmer?feature=mhee

    Comment


    • #3
      After all Charleston Heston had a walk in vault to protect his collection

      FYI, those pictures attributed to CH are of another man's extensive collection.

      CH also said you shouldn't have an AK...
      --
      James Beatty

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm sorry but I think you are buying into the gun grabber's logic. My home should be my castle and anyone who violates it is a criminal. Criminals are the problem, not law abiding citizens.

        (Yes, I have a safe. So what? It could be stolen or broken into with a metal cutting saw.)

        Do you lock up your car's spare keys when you leave home? After all, a stolen car can be a deadly weapon. Do you lock up your knives?

        What if I want to keep my varmint rifle handy for when I spot some coyotes?

        Note, I'm not talking about responsibility where there are children in the home. But the idea that we have an additional responsibility because of criminals is putting the blame on the victim, not the criminal.
        aka OhioPaints

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm sorry but I think you are buying into the gun grabber's logic. My home should be my castle and anyone who violates it is a criminal. Criminals are the problem, not law abiding citizens. Then let's stop the criminal on both fronts. When we ARE home we are armed. When we are not home, they CAN'T get our arms.

          (Yes, I have a safe. So what? It could be stolen or broken into with a metal cutting saw.) So can fort knox, but it's not something most criminals are going to do.

          Do you lock up your car's spare keys when you leave home? Yes After all, a stolen car can be a deadly weapon. Do you lock up your knives? No, but the market for fillet knives is pretty low.

          What if I want to keep my varmint rifle handy for when I spot some coyotes? Then when you get home, pull it out and keep it close. It won't shoot any while you are at work.

          Note, I'm not talking about responsibility where there are children in the home. But the idea that we have an additional responsibility because of criminals is putting the blame on the victim, not the criminal. Think about it as if varmints were getting in your trash after you put it out and went to work. Is putting a hasp latch on your garbage can a demonization of you?

          Thanks for responding. These are all good points and part of the reason I wanted to start this page.

          Sure a criminal can break into any safe (given enough time). But are we really trying to stop Oceans 12? No, more the smash and grab type of street thug. What is wrong with having a military attitude about weapons? Do we really want them in the hands of the enemy? We keep saying a gun doesn't just jump up and shoot someone, well they don't jump up and defend themselves either. :egrin:

          Not gun grabbers logic, gun KEEPERS logic. I want my guns secure so the gun grabbers have no reason to take them. It is just one simple thing that doesn't require an act of congress, law enforcement or a presidential executive order to make a reality. It's about us changing the gun culture to a more responsible one in response to the increase in crime. In the process we disarm the antis who would rather take or restrict our guns because they think we can't be trusted. Lanza's mom for example or the shooter in the Oregon mall who took his guns from a friend who didn't secure them are BIG ammo for the antis. I think WE are the answer, not new laws. But if you think new laws are the answer, then we should continue the status quo.

          I applaud you as a owner and user of a gun safe. But ask your friends how many of them don't even have one? Are they storing them in a closet with the bed sheets? So bed sheets are as important as their guns? That just doesn't even sound right.
          Motorcycle and gun videos from ADVfilmer in Ohio. http://www.youtube.com/user/advfilmer?feature=mhee

          Comment


          • #6
            Just to be clear, I am not against extra security, e.g. gun safes, etc. However, I am totally against blaming gun owners for what criminals do, or putting the responsibility for criminals on the shoulders of law abiding citizens.

            Blame the criminals, do not start to absolve them of any of the blame for their acts. It is NOT my responsibility to help criminals behave. They are 100% responsible for their own acts.

            I should be secure in my home even if I do not lock the doors. Anyone who violates that is a criminal, PERIOD. I should not be burdened by additional restrictions just because someone else is a crook. Do not blame me for someone else's illegal behavior.

            Ken
            aka OhioPaints

            Comment


            • #7
              Just to be clear, I am not against extra security, e.g. gun safes, etc. However, I am totally against blaming gun owners for what criminals do, or putting the responsibility for criminals on the shoulders of law abiding citizens.

              Blame the criminals, do not start to absolve them of any of the blame for their acts. It is NOT my responsibility to help criminals behave. They are 100% responsible for their own acts.

              I should be secure in my home even if I do not lock the doors. Anyone who violates that is a criminal, PERIOD. I should not be burdened by additional restrictions just because someone else is a crook. Do not blame me for someone else's illegal behavior.

              Ken

              Agreed, but this isn't about blame. It is about action. If you know there is a problem, do something! If cars are being broken into at night in your neighborhood do you leave the doors unlocked because it's not your fault there is crime? No, you keep an eye open for suspicious activity, you form a block watch, maybe even sit in your car for an hour hoping to catch the bastards.
              Likewise, why do you follow these rules of gun safety?

              You do it because it is now common sense. Did you always do it? Probably not and it took hearing about what happens if you don't to get you to act. This is the same thing. Good common sense that takes a little extra on the owners part to ensure their safety and the safety of others. :wink:
              Motorcycle and gun videos from ADVfilmer in Ohio. http://www.youtube.com/user/advfilmer?feature=mhee

              Comment


              • #8
                Sure a criminal can break into any safe (given enough time). But are we really trying to stop Oceans 12? No, more the smash and grab type of street thug.

                Why?

                Why aren't we concerned with real security?

                Why is your definition of the threat the correct one?

                If I can open your tin can in less than five minutes, does that mean that your method of storage isn't a "safe" one?

                What if it takes ten minutes?

                What if it takes less than one minute?

                Where does your location fit into the scheme of things? (Perhaps my closet is a much more secure environment overall than your safe.)

                Just asking...

                I'm guessing that promotion of a policy of SSS would do more to deter the common gun thief than all the safes in the world.
                --
                James Beatty

                Comment


                • #9
                  Agreed, but this isn't about blame. It is about action. If you know there is a problem, do something! If cars are being broken into at night in your neighborhood do you leave the doors unlocked because it's not your fault there is crime?

                  But the issue is RESPONSIBILITY. You are starting to shift responsibility to the victim. Just like the rape victim "she shouldn't be dressed like that" or "she shouldn't be in that neighborhood after dark".

                  Let's not confuse the issue by shifting responsibility to the gun owner. The problem is 100% the criminal.

                  When you start telling me that it's my responsibility to put it in the safe when I leave home, you reduce it's usefulness to me, because of someone else's possible criminal actions.

                  Besides, the discussion is all achedemic. With the high prices, I sold all my guns and ammo :mrgreen:
                  aka OhioPaints

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sure a criminal can break into any safe (given enough time). But are we really trying to stop Oceans 12? No, more the smash and grab type of street thug.

                    Why? Because it doesn't require the hands of the government, it's the right thing to do and leaving unsecured weapons out of your control is simply unsafe.

                    Why aren't we concerned with real security? We should be. But we should start somewhere.

                    Why is your definition of the threat the correct one? Because it is proven to happen when guns are unsecured. My own families experience with two burglaries where firearms were stolen shows me it is a problem.

                    If I can open your tin can in less than five minutes, does that mean that your method of storage isn't a "safe" one?

                    What if it takes ten minutes?

                    What if it takes less than one minute? I would say ask yourself, "how long would it take me with common tools to access my safe?" If you can access your safe, with common tools, faster than you can open a can of soup with a can opener your doing it wrong. :roll: I would preference this by saying would you trust someone who can't judge adequate security to be in the stall next to you on the range?

                    Where does your location fit into the scheme of things? (Perhaps my closet is a much more secure environment overall than your safe.) Assuming you don't live in a jail cell, this seems unlikely.

                    Just asking...

                    I'm guessing that promotion of a policy of SSS would do more to deter the common gun thief than all the safes in the world.

                    Obviously there are lots of things we could do to deter theft, gun crime and dangerous behavior. I just think this one is the easiest, most effective and involves a culture we should be promoting anyways.
                    Motorcycle and gun videos from ADVfilmer in Ohio. http://www.youtube.com/user/advfilmer?feature=mhee

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Why? Because it doesn't require the hands of the government, it's the right thing to do and leaving unsecured weapons out of your control is simply unsafe.

                      Unsafe? For whom?

                      Frankly, how I keep things in my house is no body's business but my own.

                      I cringe at "it's the right thing to do", that's too much in alignment with the gun control folks. You remember Washington DC where guns had to be disassembled and locked up? You appear to be halfway down the slippery slop.

                      How many here have commented that back in their younger days they had a rifle in the rack of the truck at school? THAT is the way it should be, not telling people they have to lock things up. Criminals are the problem, and no one else.

                      Frankly, a lot of smaller safes may be at more risk than having the gun someplace in the closet. A small safe is a big "steal me, steal me!" box that can be carted off easily.
                      aka OhioPaints

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Why? Because it doesn't require the hands of the government, it's the right thing to do and leaving unsecured weapons out of your control is simply unsafe.

                        Unsafe? For whom?

                        Frankly, how I keep things in my house is no body's business but my own.

                        I cringe at "it's the right thing to do", that's too much in alignment with the gun control folks. You remember Washington DC where guns had to be disassembled and locked up? You appear to be halfway down the slippery slop.

                        How many here have commented that back in their younger days they had a rifle in the rack of the truck at school? THAT is the way it should be, not telling people they have to lock things up. Criminals are the problem, and no one else.

                        Frankly, a lot of smaller safes may be at more risk than having the gun someplace in the closet. A small safe is a big "steal me, steal me!" box that can be carted off easily.

                        Of course I'd love for us to be back in simpler times when having to lock the doors and use security light for intruders wasn't the norm. And you are right. My saying "the right thing to do" is a cop out answer. ops: So let me rephrase my position. "With current events it is the best technology readily available to a majority of the public to prevent unauthorized people from taking control of your guns when not directly in your control."
                        As for those who find buying a safe an unfair burden, I have requested several safe producers consider supporting the site on face book with sale information or even coupons for pledging to secure their arms when not in use. :wink: I'd also extend this invitation to any Ohio dealers willing to support the site.
                        I am also aware properly securing a safe is part of the game. Lag bolts and anchors are good but I always go an extra step and either weld the safe in place or bolt it to a steel plate under the floor to make it harder to pry out. :egrin:
                        Motorcycle and gun videos from ADVfilmer in Ohio. http://www.youtube.com/user/advfilmer?feature=mhee

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I was taught the first rule of gun ownership is keep the gun from unauthorized users. Be it a safe, closet or under the bed; it's up the owner to make the decision on the best way to safe guard their guns.

                          I used to keep mine in a cheap Stack-On for years, then after a couple break-in's in my area I bought a 1200# safe last year. Now use the Stack-On for ammo.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If it fails I can only conclude the interest wasn't there for people to be responsible about their guns and the "from my cold dead hands" statement is only a bumper sticker you got to impress your friends.
                            After all Charleston Heston had a walk in vault to protect his collection and I bet Wayne LaPierre does too. I would be surprised to learn they left their firearms laying around. :wink:
                            So, if people disagree with you, then people are irresponsible? :roll:


                            px
                            What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If it fails I can only conclude the interest wasn't there for people to be responsible about their guns and the "from my cold dead hands" statement is only a bumper sticker you got to impress your friends.
                              After all Charleston Heston had a walk in vault to protect his collection and I bet Wayne LaPierre does too. I would be surprised to learn they left their firearms laying around. :wink:
                              So, if people disagree with you, then people are irresponsible? :roll:


                              px

                              But we have succeeded because we are discussing it. The only failure would have been if people refused to even discuss it.
                              Motorcycle and gun videos from ADVfilmer in Ohio. http://www.youtube.com/user/advfilmer?feature=mhee

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