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Why is BFA putting out two messages on Unconstitutional Red Flag Laws by Dewine?

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  • Why is BFA putting out two messages on Unconstitutional Red Flag Laws by Dewine?

    Just read a BFA article saying Dewine “Misspoke” on having his STAFF write up Red Flag Law. Then I heard his Staff people say they were ordered to write an Unconstitutional Red Flag Law?

    What am I missing Here?

    Where was the BFA today not testifying in support Of Constitutional Carry in Ohio? A lot of gun owners were and BFA’s testimonials would be very helpful.

    I carry a firearm because a cop is too heavy and takes too many breaks.

    Montani Semper Liberi - (Mountaineers Are Always Free)

  • #2
    Originally posted by wvriflemannoh View Post
    Where was the BFA today not testifying in support Of Constitutional Carry in Ohio? A lot of gun owners were and BFA’s testimonials would be very helpful.
    I asked as much on their FB page yesterday, and have not yet had a reply.
    Christian, Husband, Father
    NRA Life Member
    NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

    Comment


    • #3
      Sorry, must have gotten busy yesterday at the range preparing for the Youth Shoot this weekend and thought I'd posted this. Found it waiting for me this morning...

      Below is the position we at BFA hold to regarding the idea of so called "Red Flag" laws. We have an ongoing open dialog with the current administration. I am not jumping to any conclusions as of yet. I cannot remark to the inside political information I have because of my position in BFA. Rest assured, we have Ohio's gun owners, and our 2A rights,as guaranteed by the US Constitution

      he current constitutional carry bill that is before committee, while it is a "no compromise" bill, it is also not a "clean" bill. There are some issues with it, and the NRA is not backing it. If you look across the country, no constitutional carry bill has EVER passed through a state legislature without support from the NRA. Constitutional carry has been put up before the legislature in Ohio almost every session for the last 20yrs (don't quote me on 20 but it's close give or take). We are all about getting it done for Ohio, it's sad that a Republican controlled state has to be so late to the game on this point. You may see an alternative bill presented this session that is "clean" and has a better than average chance of making it to the Gov's desk for signature...OR veto override if need be (which we could do with a clean bill). It is easy to get riled up and want things fixed RIGHT NOW. It is much more difficult to get in the game, learn the politics, make relationships, work incrementally toward a goal...then achieve that goal through perseverance and tenacity.

      Current law is BETTER than any "red flag" law when utilized properly

      by Sean Maloney
      12:00PM TUESDAY, APRIL 30, 2019

      I am hopeful that this review of the Ohio Revised Code, and the laws already in place to deal with violence and mental health concerns, effectively counters all the needless calls for “Red Flag” laws.

      As can be seen below, provisions already exist within current Ohio Laws that are more effective than proposed Red Flag Laws while, at the same time, preserving an individual’s rights under both the Ohio and United States Constitutions.
      RED FLAG LAW - KEY POINTS
      • Red Flag laws turn due process on its head. It is up to the gun owner to prove that he has a right to have the firearms returned. When removing any Constitutionally-protected right, the burden should be on the accuser.
      • Red flag laws remove third-party intervention by mental health professionals and leave the decision up to a single police officer subject to approval by a judge. With no other source of information such as a psychological review, the judge is likely to side with the law enforcement officer leaving the gun owner with no due process.
      OHIO ALREADY HAS A MORE EFFECTIVE LAW ON THE BOOKS
      • Ohio already has a law on the books which, when properly used, is more effective than Red Flag laws. Ohio Revised Code section 5122.10 allows a police officer or sheriff’s deputy to take a person into custody and transport them to a hospital where they can be held for psychological evaluation for up to three days. If the psychologist confirms that the person represents a substantial risk of physical harm to self or others, the person can be presented without release to a court for issuance of an order of detention. Section 5122.10 is replete with due process protections not available under any of the existing or proposed Red Flag laws.
      • This process injects mental health professionals into the equation rather than allowing the decision to be made solely by a single police officer.
      • Rather than removing the gun from the person, the person is removed from the gun as well as any other weapons that may be available. Most importantly, the person is removed from the potentially volatile situation.
      • An affidavit and a statement of alleged facts sufficient to indicate probable cause to believe that the person is a mentally ill person subject to court order may be filed with the Probate Court Judge, or referee. If the judge or referee finds probable cause to believe that the person named in the affidavit is a mentally ill person subject to court order, the judge or referee may issue a temporary order of detention ordering any health or police officer or sheriff to take into custody and transport the person to a hospital or other place designated in section 5122.17 of the Revised Code.
      • Under ORC 2923.13, adjudication as a mentally ill person subject to court order disqualifies the person from firearms ownership and firearms can be confiscated. The person is also prohibited from further firearms purchases.
      • At all times during the adjudication process, the person will have been removed from firearms, other dangerous weapons and from the volatile situation. Red Flag laws only remove the firearms that were present at the time of the original incident and do not necessarily contain the dangerous individual.
      • Violation of the firearms ownership prohibition through the purchase or possession of other firearms would allow criminal charges as a felony of the third degree.
      • In Ohio, three types of protection may be qualifying protection orders for the purposes of firearms disability within the context of domestic violence. These are domestic violence temporary protection orders (ORC § 2919.26), domestic violence civil protection orders (ORC § 3113.31), and in some instances civil stalking and sexually oriented offenses protection orders (ORC § 2903.214). Each of these provide procedures to confiscate firearms from those subject to the Protection Order.
      • Florida has a law that is very similar to Ohio’s provisions for dealing with mentally ill persons who are a threat to others. Despite repeated warnings, the system was not used in the Parkland school situation. It is well established that this was a breakdown of government. It was not an absence of laws. Law enforcement failed to use the tool that they had available.

      In short, persons calling for Red Flag laws are doing so as a knee jerk reaction to tragic situations without first understanding that Ohio Law already provides much more effective tools. These calls for Red Flag Laws are also made in utter disregard for the Second Amendment and fundamental principles of Due Process. Whether they are called Red Flag Restraining Orders, Gun Violence Restraining Orders, Serious Threat Orders of Protection or Extreme Risk Protection Orders, they leave the individual who is supposedly a threat to self or others completely free to still be a threat to self or others, while only confiscating the firearms that they are aware of, thereby totally discounting the countless other means available to harm themselves and others.

      If Red Flag Laws were truly about public safety and not about vilifying firearms, current Ohio Law as outlined above would be utilized. Existing laws provide the means to remove the individual for medical evaluation and treatment. The many past tragedies almost universally are found to be the result of mental illness of varying forms and degrees. Yet when faced with the reality that the root cause is mental illness, government chooses only to focus on the firearm; which is merely the means for the mentally ill, not the root cause of their actions. If a person is truly a threat to themselves or others, so much so that the government is willing to deprive them of their constitutional Due Process and Second Amendment rights, then how can government strip them of civil rights based upon being an immediate danger to society, and yet leave that same threat to society alone to use countless other means to cause harm?

      Sean Maloney is an attorney specializing in gun law and serves as legal counsel for Buckeye Firearms Association, Board Member with both BFA and NRA, and is a Certified NRA Firearms Instructor. His efforts have led to his induction into the NRA-ILA EVC Hall of Fame.
      Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. James Madison, Federalist Paper No 10

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Aaron View Post
        he current constitutional carry bill that is before committee, while it is a "no compromise" bill, it is also not a "clean" bill. There are some issues with it, and the NRA is not backing it. If you look across the country, no constitutional carry bill has EVER passed through a state legislature without support from the NRA. Constitutional carry has been put up before the legislature in Ohio almost every session for the last 20yrs (don't quote me on 20 but it's close give or take). We are all about getting it done for Ohio, it's sad that a Republican controlled state has to be so late to the game on this point. You may see an alternative bill presented this session that is "clean" and has a better than average chance of making it to the Gov's desk for signature...OR veto override if need be (which we could do with a clean bill). It is easy to get riled up and want things fixed RIGHT NOW. It is much more difficult to get in the game, learn the politics, make relationships, work incrementally toward a goal...then achieve that goal through perseverance and tenacity.
        What issues are there with the bill, specifically? Why do you say it isn't "clean"? Why not work with the sponsor to make changes to this bill rather than introduce a competing bill?
        Christian, Husband, Father
        NRA Life Member
        NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
        NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

        Comment


        • #5
          "It is easy to get riled up and want things fixed RIGHT NOW". But we have been fighting for Constitutional Carry since 1995 in Ohio and you claim it's "WANT THINGS FIX RIGHT NOW"? That's hardly a valid argument. Either way, it's here and now, and yes, FIX IT RIGHT NOW. 24 years is plenty of time to get it done, don't you think?

          "It is much more difficult to get in the game, learn the politics, make relationships, work incrementally toward a goal...then achieve that goal through perseverance and tenacity." Politicians are NOT our friends, they are NOTt to be trusted. They need to be held accountable for defying their oath and refusal to protect the Constitution. There is nothing good about making relationships with them when you think they have to be coddled to do their jobs. They work for us, we are not a monarchy or a chamber of royalty we need to kiss their rings. We must stand up to them, not appease them. That's not a the right approach, as we have seen it doesn't work, for at least 20 years to get our rights back from A Government that never had right to take them away in the first place. It absurd to think that way to begin with.

          As far the Red Flag goes, I keep hearing the NRA, and the BFA, which has been quiet on this part, The NRA won't support any ERPO;s without a "Strong Due Process". Many Republicans and Dewine is saying the same thing. How can there be Due Process at all when there was never a crime involved to begin with? NO ERPO is acceptable and that is what the NRA, BFA and Dewine should be saying..This shows me these laws are targeting Law Abiding Citizens and have nothing to do with stopping criminals. These laws already killed at least one INNOCENT man in MD. How many more will they kill when more is passed?

          And about the article, these tyrants don't want real courts involved on adjudication of the mentally ill, they want one judge that will never oppose these ERPO requests on the fear if something should happen they will be blamed. The fact they can make someone guilty and you have to prove your innocent is tyranny, This will fortify the ability to expand them at any given moment including and EO by a Governor. Not to mention, many versions of these laws forbid the gun owners to know who their accusers are. What makes anyone think the state just won't make it up at some point and just start going down their 4473 forms they have stored at the gun stores.You have no right council in many of these laws because there as never a crime, or charge of one. You have to pay council yourself to get your rights back, We know many Americans can not afford that and can never fight. .

          They did that very thing in VT at the drop of a hat. A boy in middle school threaten another student and said he would use his uncles guns that he didn't even live with and the authorities went to his home and confiscated all his weapons. How do you defend yourself in those situations? This is why these ERPO's are very dangerous to every gun owner in America and NO CONSIDERATION or COMPROMISE should ever be recommended for them to pass. They are Unconstitutional for a reason and I don't understand why ANY PRO-2A organization would even suggest they would support them if they have a "Strong Due Process"?

          What gets me in all these Unconstitutional Guns laws, the 2nd Amendment and the Constitution as whole, were written to restrain the size and power of Government, yet, we treat it like it is there to restrain the freedoms, rights and liberties of the people. We are seriously losing our way and it isn't going to end well if we don't change this direction and better educate Americans.Although, rugged individualism is hard to teach when you have so many American who are pampered and taught Government is the only ones responsible for your well being and survival. Very Dangerous thought process,
          I carry a firearm because a cop is too heavy and takes too many breaks.

          Montani Semper Liberi - (Mountaineers Are Always Free)

          Comment

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