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  • DeWine today...

    I listened to as much of the press conference as i could (i was working)... Would much appreciate if the higher ups at BFA could respond in this thread. Explain in layman's terms what his plan is..and weather or not BFA supports it...? Also im sure Members that did not have a chance to listen today would appreciate the info coming straight from BFA...and not thru the biased liberal media.

  • #2
    https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gov-...-mental-health
    Gov. DeWine Rejects “Red Flag,” Introduces Plan Focused on Mental Health

    12:08pm Monday, October 07, 2019
    Buckeye Firearms Association has consistently opposed “red flag" laws. Current law, when properly enforced, provides the tools needed to deal with dangerous people.
    Since early August, when Ohio Governor Mike DeWine announced a 17-point plan to address violence, administration officials said they would research the issue and sought to do something different.
    Based on comments made by the Governor and Lt. Governor at a press conference today, it appears the administration has rejected "red flag" and opted to focus on providing medical assistance for those suspected of being a danger to themselves or others.
    “We have said for years that we need to focus on mental health and enforce current law,” said Dean Rieck, Executive Director of Buckeye Firearms Association.
    “The problem with red flag or protection order laws is that they seek to take away firearms based on an unproven accusation that an individual poses a threat. That is unconstitutional, it invites abuse of power and infringement of rights, and frankly it just doesn’t work to make anyone safer.”
    Buckeye Firearms Association will carefully review and track this bill and all other firearms legislation introduced in the Ohio Legislature and continue to defend the Second Amendment rights of Ohio’s 4 million gun owners.




    Comment


    • #3
      My understanding is the anti's are pissed. They don't give a damn about saving lives - only taking our guns.

      That is not reason enough to love it, obviously.

      But, as we have been saying for months:
      DeWine is NOT pushing "red flag" laws.
      DeWine is NOT pushing uniform background checks.

      It's a huge, complicated bill. There are still things that must be worked out. We look forward to working with legislators and interested parties to improve our laws. Same as always.

      At this time BFA has neither endorsed nor opposed the bill. That will come when appropriate as the process unfolds.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jirvine View Post
        https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gov-...-mental-health
        Gov. DeWine Rejects “Red Flag,” Introduces Plan Focused on Mental Health

        12:08pm Monday, October 07, 2019
        Buckeye Firearms Association has consistently opposed “red flag" laws. Current law, when properly enforced, provides the tools needed to deal with dangerous people.
        Since early August, when Ohio Governor Mike DeWine announced a 17-point plan to address violence, administration officials said they would research the issue and sought to do something different.
        Based on comments made by the Governor and Lt. Governor at a press conference today, it appears the administration has rejected "red flag" and opted to focus on providing medical assistance for those suspected of being a danger to themselves or others.
        “We have said for years that we need to focus on mental health and enforce current law,” said Dean Rieck, Executive Director of Buckeye Firearms Association.
        “The problem with red flag or protection order laws is that they seek to take away firearms based on an unproven accusation that an individual poses a threat. That is unconstitutional, it invites abuse of power and infringement of rights, and frankly it just doesn’t work to make anyone safer.”
        Buckeye Firearms Association will carefully review and track this bill and all other firearms legislation introduced in the Ohio Legislature and continue to defend the Second Amendment rights of Ohio’s 4 million gun owners.



        Yea..i read that on the home page.....Can you go into some detail, and does BFA like what they heard today...? You guys are pretty slippery..you have been hanging around Politicians too long.

        Comment


        • #5
          How will the seller protection part work.. How can it be enforced without a gun registry..knowing who owns what when the law goes into effect. Otherwise one could say they sold the gun before the law went into effect. or vise versa..you could get into a jam over a gun you did sell before the law went into effect..?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jirvine View Post
            My understanding is the anti's are pissed. They don't give a damn about saving lives - only taking our guns.

            That is not reason enough to love it, obviously.

            But, as we have been saying for months:
            DeWine is NOT pushing "red flag" laws.
            DeWine is NOT pushing uniform background checks.

            It's a huge, complicated bill. There are still things that must be worked out. We look forward to working with legislators and interested parties to improve our laws. Same as always.

            At this time BFA has neither endorsed nor opposed the bill. That will come when appropriate as the process unfolds.
            It was easy to see Dayton Mayor Whaley was not happy with the deal...but they are in it for the long haul..and are smart enough to take what you are giving them today...and push for more tomorrow. I just hope you know that is their strategy. and .. In a rare slip on CNN a couple months ago i heard kasich say "of coarse we cant take the guns all at once..it has to be done incrementally "

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jirvine View Post
              My understanding is the anti's are pissed. They don't give a damn about saving lives - only taking our guns.

              That is not reason enough to love it, obviously.

              But, as we have been saying for months:
              DeWine is NOT pushing "red flag" laws.
              DeWine is NOT pushing uniform background checks.

              It's a huge, complicated bill. There are still things that must be worked out. We look forward to working with legislators and interested parties to improve our laws. Same as always.

              At this time BFA has neither endorsed nor opposed the bill. That will come when appropriate as the process unfolds.
              So did BFA work with DeWine's team on Legislation described today..?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jirvine View Post
                https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gov-...-mental-health
                Gov. DeWine Rejects “Red Flag,” Introduces Plan Focused on Mental Health


                12:08pm Monday, October 07, 2019
                Buckeye Firearms Association has consistently opposed “red flag" laws. Current law, when properly enforced, provides the tools needed to deal with dangerous people.
                Since early August, when Ohio Governor Mike DeWine announced a 17-point plan to address violence, administration officials said they would research the issue and sought to do something different.
                Based on comments made by the Governor and Lt. Governor at a press conference today, it appears the administration has rejected "red flag" and opted to focus on providing medical assistance for those suspected of being a danger to themselves or others.
                “We have said for years that we need to focus on mental health and enforce current law,” said Dean Rieck, Executive Director of Buckeye Firearms Association.
                “The problem with red flag or protection order laws is that they seek to take away firearms based on an unproven accusation that an individual poses a threat. That is unconstitutional, it invites abuse of power and infringement of rights, and frankly it just doesn’t work to make anyone safer.”
                Buckeye Firearms Association will carefully review and track this bill and all other firearms legislation introduced in the Ohio Legislature and continue to defend the Second Amendment rights of Ohio’s 4 million gun owners.



                Don’t pee in my ear and tell me it’s raining. This is still a type of Red Flag law. Why are you ignoring he’s screwing with the words?

                Mental health is not Governments business when no crime has ever been committed. UBC lite is still A UBC. The mandated treatment violates the Bill Of Rights based on non crimes accusations. Based on what Dewine is proposing is already part of the current law in Ohio.


                The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits the purchase or possession of firearms by people who have been formally & involuntarily committed to mental health or drug treatment by a court, mental health board, or other legal commission. We already have a 72 hour mental evaluation hold.

                kidknappimg people and throwing them in a mental institution was banned in the 70’s because it was illegal and still a kidnapping.

                Your lack of NOT ENDORSING this one way or the other is still an Endorsement for this crap by people who think you actually want to protect the 2A.

                No beating around the bush Jim, you are a politician yourself. Take that anyway you like!






                I carry a firearm because a cop is too heavy and takes too many breaks.

                Montani Semper Liberi - (Mountaineers Are Always Free)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is there an actual bill yet?
                  "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This lays things out clearly..it's a long read, but very detailed. I don't like it, and don't think it will get past the state senate .. This is what happens when greasy Politicians try to walk the fence..they end up making nobody happy. The gun grabbers say it dosn't go far enough..and the pro 2A people/groups see it as a clear pathway to a worse situation. I really..really want to support the BFA...But so far i see an organization that wont make its position clear on..not what will end up going up for a vote (we don't know what that will be yet)... But do they like what they see so far...? How involved have they been in the process..? They are either not good communicators..or confused by the whole thing..or are in over their head, enjoy hob nobbing and the status that comes from playing nice with people in power....but know their membership wont like whats brewing or their involvement in it...?

                    https://www.cleveland.com/open/2019/...form-plan.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for the link Cindy. I just read it, and it looks awful. The devil is always in the details, especially with firearms bills and especially when DeWine is involved. The actual legislation often has consequences that are not described by its proponents.
                      "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Regarding BFA, they were relatively successful at getting legislators to support legislation that incrementally improved Ohio's firearms laws that violate the federal and state constitutions. Many more people supported them and the forum had much more activity in years past. Their support for DeWine seems to be their undoing. Now, the forums have very little traffic and seems to be just their moderators, you, I, and WV, and we are criticizing them. They supported a bad bill back in 2013 (HB 203) that had surreptitious provisions that greatly expanded firearms prohibitions similar to the current HB 354. They and their lawyers didn't know it because they did not understand how federal law interacted with state law. It took me months to demonstrate how HB 203 actually expanded gun control, and the legislature killed those provisions. I believe those provisions were from DeWine or his minions. Many people were mad at BFA for not catching that before supporting the bill, and they lost supporters because of that. Then, BFA endorsed DeWine in the primary election over Mary Taylor, which really pissed off a lot of people. DeWine's recent statements have made matters worse. If the actual legislation is as bad as I think, I don't see how BFA will survive unless they withdraw their support for DeWine and fight the legislation. That, however, would require admitting they were wrong, and I don't see them doing that.

                        I too want BFA to remain a lobby and I want them to be successful, which is why I am still here, but I am afraid stubbornness and arrogance will prevail, and BFA will never be what is once was.
                        "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks Cindy for the link. Appreciate it. BFA is in the pockets of the politicians in Ohio. They prefer that than really defending the 2nd Amendment and the Bill Of Rights. Which, what Dewine IS STILL PROPOSING and it STILL violates both.


                          I haven't got to hear all of Dewine's double speak, characterization and Authoritarian Totalitarian Speech yet, but I'm working on it. One of the fists things that stood out for me already is is the Dewine's thought process on what he thinks is his first goals are. Completely wrong.


                          Dewine said,
                          "1.Strong Ohio is a proposal to stop people who pose a danger to themselves and others." We already have laws for that. The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits the purchase or possession of firearms by people who have been formally & involuntarily committed to mental health or drug treatment by a court, mental health board, or other legal commission. We already have a 72 hour mental evaluation hold.

                          They are trying to
                          weaponize the mental health argument to disarm Ohioans. Remember, over 50% of mass murderers were already seeing a shrink and on some kind of medication

                          2.
                          "To enhance the safety of law enforcement and First responders". No, we already have laws for that, more so called "safety" of these people mean strengthening the police state and creating more BS that innocent people can be charged with for resisting their tyranny. No More, This is not the job of the governor of any state.


                          "3. Protect families and reduce violence in all communities." So, you are going to support Constitutional Carry, Stand Your Ground and get the hell out of our way so we can protect our own families? SCOTUS Ruled in Warren v DC Government has no obligation to protect any person even under a restraining order. It's impossible anyway. So, you know as well as BFA these talking points are a lie and does nothing but empower more authoritarian totalitarian government.

                          The REAL number one job of any government is to protect individual liberty, freedom and rights, anything else is tyranny. But you don't hear that from anyone.

                          For Jim to say,
                          "At this time BFA has neither endorsed nor opposed the bill. That will come when appropriate as the process unfolds" You need to condemn ALL OF IT NOW. Did you not hear Dewine say he couldn't come out to at least say these were Red Flag Gun Confiscation Law because he couldn't get enough support if it was called that. That means if YOU came out against all of these proposals, there would be even less of them if any at all to in a bill we have to fight in the first place. You are compromising on our rights again Jim. Just admit it. You were only 1 of 2 so called pro 2A clubs in that meeting. Who else would the governor be thanking for their cooperation?

                          This Tells me YOU gave the nod to the governor in your secret meeting. Nothing else explains this BS PC speak. You see what Dewine wants to do and for you to not condemn it and revoke your endorsement of Dewine speaks for itself. You care more for your standing in Columbus than anything else. OR, you really do agree with most it, if not all of these Draconian proposals. You should revoke your own promises you spew everyday about protecting the 2A. Clearly you don't.

                          I'd say Pick a side Jim but it looks like you already have.
                          I carry a firearm because a cop is too heavy and takes too many breaks.

                          Montani Semper Liberi - (Mountaineers Are Always Free)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wvriflemannoh View Post
                            Thanks Cindy for the link. Appreciate it. BFA is in the pockets of the politicians in Ohio. They prefer that than really defending the 2nd Amendment and the Bill Of Rights. Which, what Dewine IS STILL PROPOSING and it STILL violates both.


                            I haven't got to hear all of Dewine's double speak, characterization and Authoritarian Totalitarian Speech yet, but I'm working on it. One of the fists things that stood out for me already is is the Dewine's thought process on what he thinks is his first goals are. Completely wrong.


                            Dewine said,
                            "1.Strong Ohio is a proposal to stop people who pose a danger to themselves and others." We already have laws for that. The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits the purchase or possession of firearms by people who have been formally & involuntarily committed to mental health or drug treatment by a court, mental health board, or other legal commission. We already have a 72 hour mental evaluation hold.

                            They are trying to
                            weaponize the mental health argument to disarm Ohioans. Remember, over 50% of mass murderers were already seeing a shrink and on some kind of medication

                            2.
                            "To enhance the safety of law enforcement and First responders". No, we already have laws for that, more so called "safety" of these people mean strengthening the police state and creating more BS that innocent people can be charged with for resisting their tyranny. No More, This is not the job of the governor of any state.


                            "3. Protect families and reduce violence in all communities." So, you are going to support Constitutional Carry, Stand Your Ground and get the hell out of our way so we can protect our own families? SCOTUS Ruled in Warren v DC Government has no obligation to protect any person even under a restraining order. It's impossible anyway. So, you know as well as BFA these talking points are a lie and does nothing but empower more authoritarian totalitarian government.

                            The REAL number one job of any government is to protect individual liberty, freedom and rights, anything else is tyranny. But you don't hear that from anyone.

                            For Jim to say,
                            "At this time BFA has neither endorsed nor opposed the bill. That will come when appropriate as the process unfolds" You need to condemn ALL OF IT NOW. Did you not hear Dewine say he couldn't come out to at least say these were Red Flag Gun Confiscation Law because he couldn't get enough support if it was called that. That means if YOU came out against all of these proposals, there would be even less of them if any at all to in a bill we have to fight in the first place. You are compromising on our rights again Jim. Just admit it. You were only 1 of 2 so called pro 2A clubs in that meeting. Who else would the governor be thanking for their cooperation?

                            This Tells me YOU gave the nod to the governor in your secret meeting. Nothing else explains this BS PC speak. You see what Dewine wants to do and for you to not condemn it and revoke your endorsement of Dewine speaks for itself. You care more for your standing in Columbus than anything else. OR, you really do agree with most it, if not all of these Draconian proposals. You should revoke your own promises you spew everyday about protecting the 2A. Clearly you don't.

                            I'd say Pick a side Jim but it looks like you already have.
                            I am concerned that BFA's apparent wishy-washy ness thru this whole thing may be seen as a green light to Republicans in the State Govt..or they might think it provides them some cover should they consider voting in favor of it... Had BFA pulled their endorsement of DeWine as soon as he started talking crazy and hanging out with Libtard Mayors it would have sent a clear message to them...NO... So we may have been better off if BFA had just stayed out of it...? But im sure theres alot i dont know...I learned a long time ago..it's easy to criticize, and form a plan when you have no idea what your talking about....lol. As others have said...at best..this is just layering over existing laws that they dont bother to enforce... Im pretty sure its already illegal to shoot people with any kind of gun, with any Mag capacity, regardless of how or where it was purchased...making all gun laws redundant... It's not about guns..it's about control...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think you hit the nail on the head Cindy. Would representatives Plummer and Swearingen have introduced HB 354 that seeks to confiscate guns from thousands non-violent offenders who currently legally own them if DeWine would have been met immediately with strong opposition from BFA after his first gun control presser this year?
                              "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms**disarm only those who [don't] commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides." - Thomas Jefferson.

                              Comment

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