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  • delawarelibertarian
    started a topic Why I chose 40 S&W

    Why I chose 40 S&W

    Hopefully these graphs render ok.

    From them you can see that 40 S&W can match 9mm for velocity and 45 ACP for energy (depending on load).

    With 40 S&W you get better magazine capacity than 45 ACP, and about 85%-90% of the capacity of 9mm.

    Ammunition is less expensive than 45 ACP, and not much more expensive than 9mm.

    There is the advantage that 40 S&W is in wide use by LE, so ammo will be widely available.

    If I were in combat, I would choose 9mm for the slightly greater magazine capacity, and if I needed something to suppress (sound), I would choose 45 ACP since it is subsonic (without load modification). If money and over penatration were not concerns, I would choose 357 SIG, since it is clearly the fastest, most powerful load. As none of these is the case, I chose 40 S&W for its balance and versatility.

    For what its worth, I own pistols in 22lr, 380 ACP, 9mm, 357 SIG, 40 S&W, 10mm, and 45 ACP, but I choose to carry one of the 40 S&W pistols. I carry the 180 load, which has better organ depth penetration than 45 ACP and better permanent wound channel creation than 9mm.

    All that being said, I would probably feel comfortable carrying anything 380 ACP and above, and would not want to be shot with anything at all.



    Here is the table this is based on. This is for Gold Dot ammo, which I chose, because it passes both the FBI hard surface and IWBA soft surface expansion tests.

    Load MZ 50 100
    9mm Luger 115gr 1200 1065 976
    9mm Luger 124gr 1150 1039 963
    9mm Luger 147gr 985 932 887
    9mm Luger +P 124gr 1220 1085 996
    357 SIG 125gr 1375 1203 1079
    40 S&W 155gr 1200 1063 974
    40 S&W 165gr 1150 1042 967
    40 S&W 180gr 1025 956 902
    45 Auto 185gr 1050 955 886
    45 Auto 230gr 890 845 805
    45 Auto +P 200gr 1080 994 930

    Load MZ 50 100
    9mm Luger 115gr 368 289 243
    9mm Luger 124gr 364 297 225
    9mm Luger 147gr 317 284 257
    9mm Luger +P 124gr 410 324 273
    357 SIG 125gr 525 402 323
    40 S&W 155gr 496 389 326
    40 S&W 165gr 484 398 342
    40 S&W 180gr 420 365 325
    45 Auto 185gr 453 375 322
    45 Auto 230gr 404 365 331
    45 Auto +P 200gr 518 439 384

    Load 25 50 100
    9mm Luger 115gr 0.8 3.5 8.3
    9mm Luger 124gr 0.9 3.9 9
    9mm Luger 147gr 1.5 5.5 12
    9mm Luger +P 124gr 0.8 3.3 8
    357 SIG 125gr 0.4 2.3 5.9
    40 S&W 155gr 0.8 3.6 8.4
    40 S&W 165gr 0.9 3.9 8.9
    40 S&W 180gr 1.3 5 11.2
    45 Auto 185gr 1.3 4.9 11.1
    45 Auto 230gr 2 7.1 15.3
    45 Auto +P 200gr 1.1 4.5 10.2

  • jackonine
    replied
    Personal preference for a 1911 many years back, but now for home protection and concealment M&P 9mm, though with the 40 there is a slight difference, but not overall. I shot a Walther PPS and even that was adequate. There are some slight drawbacks with the M&P Shield as in the stock sights (I changed those right away). Recently I was considering a Kahr CM9 but then again, personal preferences came in. The feel was almost like the M&P but I have yet to be convinced.

    Ammo prices just keep going up even for 9mm, Cabelas is vastly overpriced last time I went in.

    There's comfort in 9mm and ease of response over the 40 for myself, quicker shot placement.

    Leave a comment:


  • old cold warrior
    replied
    Today, I had a Gander Mountain gunsmith extract a stuck empty .40 caliber "WOLF"/Russian cartridge from the camber of my disassembled Beretta 96D. He explained that this "cheap" ammunition that had me bitchin' was coated with laquer, that builds up inside chambers until the cartridges get stuck and have to be extracted with hand tools. So, good guns need good ammo to make them go BLAMMO! This might not be a problem with my Smith & Wesson Sigma, since I can go back to my Gander Mountain gunsmith friend again. He'll make me bitch and whine if he charges me for his labor the next time. :roll:

    Leave a comment:


  • old cold warrior
    replied
    It is currently the standard cop round for most of our local departments.
    I also buy 9mms.

    Leave a comment:


  • ken45
    replied
    FWIW, it looks like I am converting to the 40SW. I've been a firm believer in either .45 or .357. I've had a Sig P226/40 for a dozen years but never cared for it, I still have most of the ammo left that I bought with it Thursday I bought a Springfield EMP (40), that's the reduced size 1911. I love it! I have 300 rounds through it and it's just as comfortable to shoot as my full sized steel 1911.

    I have to admit that the ballistics performance chart for the 180 gr .40SW does look good.

    FWIW, Springfield has both a 9mm and 40SW EMP. The 40SW is an all steel frame (32 oz.) whereas the 9mm is an alloy frame that is a half dozen ounces lighter. I think they wisely realized that the 40SW belonged on a 30+ ounce gun.

    I've been carrying the EMP since it arrived.

    Ken

    Leave a comment:


  • adam
    replied
    Stu, I didn't take that into account about the fixed barrel but will def keep that in mind when I go to buy another hand gun. Thanks for the info on the grips I've got them bookmarked for a future purchase.

    Leave a comment:


  • smmassociates
    replied
    Adam:

    I don't really know the Bersa, but the .380 often appears in guns where the barrel is fixed to the frame, and blowback (gas pressure from firing) is used to cycle the slide. Those seem to hurt more in smaller guns - like the Walther PPK and PPK/S. Once you get into guns that move the barrel around a bit, more recoil is absorbed by things other than your hand, and they just feel better, regardless of the size & weight of the gun.

    I also found that putting Pachmayr grips on a PPK/S helped alot.... Still not something to shoot for fun, at least for me, but you don't have the urge to visit the ER after a few rounds.

    All the guys I've run into with the Bersas, btw, seem to like them.

    Regards,

    Leave a comment:


  • adam
    replied
    Thanks for the info Joe, I may be in for a surprise then since the Bersa are relatively small guns to begin with. Either way looks good in my growing collection. =)

    Leave a comment:


  • joe sixpack
    replied
    This thread was a great find for me. I just purchased a Bersa Thunder .40 cal and this section answered a lot of my questions in regards to the round. Won't be able to pick it up till next Wed with the waiting period but I had shot the .380 version which was quite snappy so if this round is somewhat similar I think it will do well for my EDC.

    .380 is weaker then 9mm

    .380
    the thing is it depends on what you shoot it in.. compact/subcompact or lightweight guns will have more recoil to them..

    the larger heavier guns soak up the recoil better.. so even though .380 is'nt considered a high powered round it can be a handful in smaller guns.

    Leave a comment:


  • adam
    replied
    This thread was a great find for me. I just purchased a Bersa Thunder .40 cal and this section answered a lot of my questions in regards to the round. Won't be able to pick it up till next Wed with the waiting period but I had shot the .380 version which was quite snappy so if this round is somewhat similar I think it will do well for my EDC.

    Leave a comment:


  • rottman43055
    replied
    Have to admit, I only skimmed this thread, but IMO, after shot placement, .45 acp is king of SD rounds. Easy recoil, no expansion needed and on & on.

    If I feel like it later I may put up some links on some terminal ballistics not from gel tests but real life accounts of 45 killing people. Chuck Taylor being one of them. He gave 5 guys 1 shot each of 45 acp FMJ in the chest and they where dropped and DRT (dead right there). The guy he popped with the 9mm & also the guy with the 357 each was able to keep fighting. IIRC the second 9mm hit the guys spine & dropped him.

    Out of the 7 guys he shot dead with chest shots, only the 5 hit with the 45 couldn't fight back. Here is his account http://www.chucktayloramericansmalla...pingpower.html

    Carry On LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • smmassociates
    replied
    col:

    The admin types who buy these things by the case are easily impressed - the bigger .40 sounds like they're doing something to protect the troops, and, for some reason, doesn't get the "public opinion" hit that a .357 or .45 can....

    IMHO, there's a major issue in the need for a follow-up shot. It just doesn't seem as likely with the larger caliber.... Which is good 'cause it's harder....

    A good solid hit with any reasonable caliber (i.e., 9mm and above ) ought to do the job. It's what happens when you need the follow-up....

    Regards,

    Leave a comment:


  • color of law
    replied
    ...Mod hat back off, and back to topic, IMHO, while about anybody can shoot a 9mm, the .40 may be slightly more effective for those who can handle it, without too many of the drawbacks of the .45ACP. IMHO, too, most people can train up to either, but in a full size gun it's almost the same as a 9mm. And in a smaller gun (even though I couldn't stand the PPS40, but love an M&P40C - the PPS40 has design issues that make it far less comfortable to shoot than it needs to be), you get almost as comfortable a shooter in a J-frame-sized package.

    You don't get the super-mini that a 9mm can be built into, but remember that most of these .40's seem to be going in as Glock replacements, for "Service" guns - "Full Size" (whether or not they're replacing a Glock), and are probably replacing a 9mm "Service" gun because somebody got sold on 'em, and maybe realized that a .40 would be better in the field than a 9mm.... The .40 is also pretty close the .357 in general (let's not argue about the ballistics) and may be allowing some of these administrators to phase out .357 Magnums, too, for Politically Correct reasons....

    If I were king, the older all-metal S&W semi's in .40S&W or .45ACP would be my choice for "service" guns, but the Tupperguns are half the price, and probably nearly as reliable. LE Admin types like to save a buck - makes it easier to buy better take-home cars for themselves.

    Regards,

    In most cases size doesn't really matter. I have never heard of a case of the possible recipient of a gunshot to inquire as to the caliber size so he could brace himself for the sudden impact should it occur.

    What, you are going to shoot me with a 9mm????

    Leave a comment:


  • smmassociates
    replied
    You my want to rethink your 9mm comment in light of the Arizona incident that took place today. The gunman used a Glock 19 and there are 6 dead. MHO.

    May they rest in peace.

    col:

    Amen....

    But (putting Mod hat on for just a minute) maybe we ought to let that Arizona incident pass a little longer and see what else develops.

    (I hate to add, but it now appears that his target survived....)

    Mod hat back off, and back to topic, IMHO, while about anybody can shoot a 9mm, the .40 may be slightly more effective for those who can handle it, without too many of the drawbacks of the .45ACP. IMHO, too, most people can train up to either, but in a full size gun it's almost the same as a 9mm. And in a smaller gun (even though I couldn't stand the PPS40, but love an M&P40C - the PPS40 has design issues that make it far less comfortable to shoot than it needs to be), you get almost as comfortable a shooter in a J-frame-sized package.

    You don't get the super-mini that a 9mm can be built into, but remember that most of these .40's seem to be going in as Glock replacements, for "Service" guns - "Full Size" (whether or not they're replacing a Glock), and are probably replacing a 9mm "Service" gun because somebody got sold on 'em, and maybe realized that a .40 would be better in the field than a 9mm.... The .40 is also pretty close the .357 in general (let's not argue about the ballistics) and may be allowing some of these administrators to phase out .357 Magnums, too, for Politically Correct reasons....

    If I were king, the older all-metal S&W semi's in .40S&W or .45ACP would be my choice for "service" guns, but the Tupperguns are half the price, and probably nearly as reliable. LE Admin types like to save a buck - makes it easier to buy better take-home cars for themselves.

    Regards,

    Leave a comment:


  • pokey
    replied
    A 9 works more than fine..........

    Leave a comment:

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