New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

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paazig
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New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by paazig » Wed May 04, 2011 9:42 pm

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/index.p ... id=2369892
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New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

May 4, 2011 - 7:40am

Green lighting, green energy, and now, green ammo! The Army will test its lead-free ammunition at a demonstration later this morning at the Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland. The "green" rounds have environmentally-friendly projectiles that could save up to 2,000 tons of lead a year the Army says. They have already been distributed to war zones. At the demonstration, the green ammunition will go up against old lead-based rounds to see how they perform.
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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by snowden » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:31 pm

and probably a lot more expensive, hear about cali banning lead hunting bullets?

oops necro thread is old

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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by paazig » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:31 pm

snowden wrote:and probably a lot more expensive, hear about cali banning lead hunting bullets?

oops necro thread is old
- 2-1/2 years later the original post has limited value
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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by calemus » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:48 pm

necro or not
what were the Green bullets made out of?
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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by SMMAssociates » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:55 am

Don't forget that the EPA has shut down the last lead smelter in the US....

Given Zero's world view, giving our troops ammunition that doesn't work wouldn't bother him or his fellow travelers a bit, but the rest of us need to think about it.

calemus: Probably made out of our money. It's not worth a hell of a lot now anyway....

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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by ApexShootingTactics » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:31 pm

Thunder Ranch requires frangible/lead free ammo as well. There are a lot of indoor LE ranges that require "clean fire" ammo. This allows ranges to stay around for a lot longer. Police ranges get closed down all the time for lead issue. In 2007 we allowed 15 different agencies to use our range during that year. Including our agency it was 16 agencies which accounted for 188 days of live fire training. Many of those days we had multiple agencies using the same facility.

A big part of me is nervous that this is the future of firearms training. The day will come when every public or private range will be required to be lead free. Hopefully technology catches up and they come up with an inexpensive, reliable lead free ammo.
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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by RogerD » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:07 pm

Maybe now there's a practical use for Silly Putty- in bullets!
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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by Brian D. » Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:05 pm

ApexShootingTactics wrote:A big part of me is nervous that this is the future of firearms training. The day will come when every public or private range will be required to be lead free. Hopefully technology catches up and they come up with an inexpensive, reliable lead free ammo.
My experience with some "first generation" lead free ammo was quite disappointing. Won two fifty count boxes of the stuff at a match. Filthy burning, didn't cycle the otherwise reliable gun I was using, and chronograph readings were all over the place. (Once I realized the ammo was less than stellar, figured there was no sense trying to use it against targets or even in practice, so I broke out the chrono.)

How much better in these regards is the lead free ammo being made now?
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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by ApexShootingTactics » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:02 pm

"Clean Fire" ammo is by far the best but it is not lead free. It is a clean primer and the bullet has a complete jacket.

As far as frangible truly lead free ammo we have had a lot of positive experiences with International Green Elite. I first purchased International ammo when I attended a class at Thunder Ranch. Over the years I have purchased a lot of Green Elite for my agency when we send officers to shooting courses that require lead free. I have used other companies but International seems to have fewer problems. The big issue for me is the cost.

I have heard that Sinterfire makes decent bullets that are lead free. Reloading frangible bullets is slightly different than reloading conventional bullets though.
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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by Eugene » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:08 pm

You know with modern plastics I don't see why we can't make plastic bullets.
Then print them yourself on a 3d printer.

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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by jabeatty » Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:10 pm

Eugene wrote:You know with modern plastics I don't see why we can't make plastic bullets.
Then print them yourself on a 3d printer.
I don't think anyone is making "plastics" dense enough to replace lead as a suitable projectile.

I'm also pretty certain that there's a very limited range of plastics available for use in 3D printers, and none of them are design to handle the kind of punishment that they see in this role.
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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by NRAInstructor » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:00 pm

jabeatty wrote:
Eugene wrote:You know with modern plastics I don't see why we can't make plastic bullets.
Then print them yourself on a 3d printer.
I don't think anyone is making "plastics" dense enough to replace lead as a suitable projectile.

I'm also pretty certain that there's a very limited range of plastics available for use in 3D printers, and none of them are design to handle the kind of punishment that they see in this role.

Yeah. I think even if the plastic was strong enough to be used on anything other than paper it would not be heavy enough to have the same performance as lead. Seems like a lead replacement would almost have to be some type of metal to be effective.
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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by calemus » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:21 pm

density is a huge issue
as steel bullets are illegal for most folk that cuts out a TON of options (not to mention damage to barrels)

this is a list of the heaviest elements values (lightest on top)
http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/mass/atomic-mass.htm

the problem with this is that most of the elements heavy enough to be ammunition are either man made, or ultra rare.
what we need is a natural occurring element, that is cheap to acquire, and easy to be worked with
oh wait,,,lead isn't an option,,,hmm,,,that makes things kinda hard

one of you hurry up an develop a Gauss rifle i can hunt deer with!!!!
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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by SMMAssociates » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:27 pm

James, Joel:

I had some military plastic rounds some years ago. One of my co-workers did "government contracts", and was always bringing something strange back to the office. Nylon casings and projectiles. Not a lot of weight there, though, but to some extent that was the idea - more bang per pound :D....

IMHO, something like a .22 may actually be possible. After that, the need for weight goes way up or performance goes into the dumper. I guess you could load the plastic with some sort of dense filler (lead? :) ), but then the environuts will be upset about all that plastic going downrange, too....

Bad situation all around, although I suppose lead (ingots or finsihed projectiles) could be imported until the EPA goes after the ranges directly for that, too. Price would be interesting.

My friend Mike Miller seriously considered buying a range a few years ago - a competitor that had a decent indoor range and gun store was selling out, and Mike had always wanted a range in his own store. Turned out that the price wasn't too terrible, but the EPA compliance costs were outrageous. Mike basically said that he was too old to make the investment....

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Re: New Army ammo: better, stronger, greener

Post by jabeatty » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:13 pm

SMMAssociates wrote:I had some military plastic rounds some years ago. One of my co-workers did "government contracts", and was always bringing something strange back to the office. Nylon casings and projectiles. Not a lot of weight there, though, but to some extent that was the idea - more bang per pound :D....
Actually, those were training rounds - and the idea is reduced cost and recoil. :)
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