Another accident... *sigh*

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write2char
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Another accident... *sigh*

Post by write2char » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:46 pm

http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-ap-amish-g ... .story?%3F

FREDERICKSBURG, Ohio (AP) A man cleaning his muzzle-loading rifle shot the gun into the air, accidentally killing a 15-year-old Amish girl driving a horse-drawn buggy more than a mile away, a sheriff said Tuesday.

Rachel Yoder was shot in the head Thursday night while traveling to her home in Wayne County, between Columbus and Akron. She had attended a Christmas party for employees, most of them under 18 years old, at an Amish produce farm and was riding home alone when she was shot, Wayne County sheriff's Capt. Douglas Hunter said.

Hunter said his department had traced a trail of blood along the road for about three-eighths of a mile into Holmes County in an area of farms and rolling hills.

Holmes County Sheriff Timothy Zimmerly said investigators figured out what happened after the gun-cleaner's family came forward and after his neighbors reported hearing a shot at about the time the girl was wounded.

The man had fired the gun in the air about 1.5 miles from where Yoder was shot, Zimmerly said. State investigators were checking the rifle for a ballistics match, he said.

"In all probability, it looks like an accidental shooting," Zimmerly said.

No charges have been filed.

Yoder was born in nearby Mount Eaton and attended the Old Order Amish Church, The (Wooster) Daily Record reported. She is survived by her father, 10 brothers and sisters, 26 nieces and nephews and two grandparents.

Hunter said earlier there was no indication the shooting was related to a rash of beard-cutting attacks against Amish men in a feud over church discipline.

Still, the mystery of the shooting in the wake of the beard-cutting attacks had left the Amish shaken and "on pins and needles," Zimmerly said.

Zimmerly said he informed the Yoder family that the shooting appeared to be accidental.

"Obviously, that makes them feel a lot better than if someone might have been targeting the Amish or (if it was) a random shooting murder," he said.

Gun violence in Amish communities is rare but not unheard of. A man shot 10 schoolgirls, killing five, inside a one-room schoolhouse five years ago in Nickel Mines, Pa. The Amish were praised for their forgiveness after the shooting and reaching out to comfort the gunman's widow.



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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by Viking » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:59 pm

Seems a little fishy ---- a random head-shot hit at 1.5 miles with a muzzle loader?
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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by SMMAssociates » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:08 pm

Viking:

+1....

REALLY bad luck, or something entirely different....

My guess would be an "empty" gun pointed at the roadway - maybe pop a cap to clean the nipple? Only not empty....

It's also a PITA to empty a muzzle loader for cleaning, etc. Firing it into a clearing barrel (outside, unless you really like indoor air pollution) is more likely, and bothering to use the barrel.... :(

We had a situation some years ago - a ladies professional golf tournament was being held at the Avalon Inn (Warren area - not far from the infamous Perkins of these M&G's), and a guy shooting in the woods a mile or so away missed a backstop (more likely a tree) and it got one of the golfers in the shoulder. Put her out of the tournament, but she wasn't seriously hurt. Courts came down on the shooter, but not too badly.

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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by willbird » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:02 am

I ran the data for 1 mile because a person on another board doubted it would be lethal at one mile.

Barnes spitfire tmz muzzle velocity of 2100fps, bc .241

At 1800 yards the bullet would still be going 482 fps, it would rise about 218 feet in the highest portion of it's trajectory, and take 7 seconds to arrive.

At 2700 yards it would still be going 334fps, it would have risen 1035 feet at the highest point of it's trajectory, and would take 15.4 seconds to arrive.

Unknown exactly what that bullet would do dropping from supersonic to subsonic flight. We do not known what bullet he used either.
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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by SMMAssociates » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:10 am

Bill:

Sounds potentially lethal to me....

But the young lady's luck had to be so bad that the guys who picked her up might want to check their insurance, too.... REALLY bad luck....

And, if we believe the shooter, totally random....

I'm still inclined to think ND, if it wasn't actually aimed at her ("hey, let's see if we can scare that horse")....

Accident? I don't think so....

Intentional? Who knows?

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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by willbird » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:41 am

SMMAssociates wrote:Bill:

Sounds potentially lethal to me....

But the young lady's luck had to be so bad that the guys who picked her up might want to check their insurance, too.... REALLY bad luck....

And, if we believe the shooter, totally random....

I'm still inclined to think ND, if it wasn't actually aimed at her ("hey, let's see if we can scare that horse")....

Accident? I don't think so....

Intentional? Who knows?

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It is fairly flat here, and I could not see a horse and buggy 1.5 miles away on a GOOD day.
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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by SMMAssociates » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:48 pm

Bill:

Guess you're right about being able to see the horse & buggy at that distance, but I still wonder if that number is accurate....

IAC, some really bad luck on the young lady's part, and still an ND, I would think.

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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by techguy85 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:47 pm

SMMAssociates wrote:Bill:

Guess you're right about being able to see the horse & buggy at that distance, but I still wonder if that number is accurate....

IAC, some really bad luck on the young lady's part, and still an ND, I would think.

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What does ND stand for in this context?

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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by Brian D. » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:05 pm

ND = Negligent Discharge. Briefly this means that the gun was fired unintentionally but due to operator error. Accidental Discharge, by contrast, would indicate an undetected mechanical problem caused the firearm to go off.

For many years lots of folks called them all "AD's" in spite of the fact that the majority of the times it was due to negligence not mechanical failure.
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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by Old Cold Warrior » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:08 pm

So sad, but another lesson learned. Nobody living in the city or suburbs would deliberately do it, except during holidays, when you get high and drunk and don't care about shooting guns into the air; much like those rag hea, uh...Arabs and Moozlums and Persians that we see on our TV screens. :esad:

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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by SMMAssociates » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:33 pm

techguy:

Brian's correct....

(Thanks, Brian.)

It seems to be far more convenient to just fire a muzzle loader than to try to empty it, if it can be done safely. I'm guessing the shooter did exactly that, but without consideration of where the projectile would go.

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techguy85
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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by techguy85 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:46 pm

On the firing in the air topic, I've always wondered what makes these morons think that little thimble of gun powder is going to give a bullet escape volocity.

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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by NMorgan » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:28 pm

There is another thread pertaining to this topic here for more information. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13086
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Re: Another accident... *sigh*

Post by SMMAssociates » Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:41 pm

NMorgan:

Thanks for pointing out the duplicate thread....

(Well, nearly duplicate :D.)

I'm going to lock this one unless somebody complains.

Regards,
Stu

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